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Comment by drieddust | Hacker News Reader

Well last time I got angry down votes for saying this. But you are really renting if apple can lock you out.

My non technical wife managed to lock herself out of her device and icloud with no recourse as I didn't preserve the reciept.

So now we have a device but it is just an unusable brick. So are we the owner or renter?

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I let an iPad sit on a shelf for a few years. In that time, Apple removed the account it was registered under, so I can't log in to it at all.

That's a restriction on the account.

For the device you can always erase and start from scratch.

I cannot unlock the device at all, and I cannot erase it and start from scratch.

You can't if it's stuck in "Activation Lock" and you can't logon to the Apple ID. I have one of these situations. A perfectly good device is effectively bricked.

That means that they've lost both the iCloud (Apple ID) account AND the device password...

Well, at some point, they device might as well be bricked.

Otherwise device theft would be much higher (since they could use it, whereas now they can't), plus of course if lost/stolen people would have access to the data.

This is a good feature but normal users are getting locked out constantly. IMO a good middle ground is if you forget your password or lose access, you can start the process of a factory reset which triggers notifications to your apple account and your email telling you to cancel it if the device was legitimately lost or stolen but if nothing happens after a week your device gets reset.

That is actually a good suggestion. Getting locked out of your own device and then trying to prove ownership seems too much hassle.

I wonder how many device are rendered useless due to this "security feature".

Personally I know of 5 mobile devices which have been bricked by this security feature and I do not know anyone who has had anything actually stolen (including things like wallets with no protection).

Also to note that there is no proving ownership to get around the lock. You either have the password to log in or it’s bricked. You can go to apple or google with proof of purchase and they will not / can not unlock the device.

We weren't after unlock. We wanted to erase and reuse the device. AFAIK Apple genius can do that in-store if you show the proof of ownership.

There are online services which claim to do this if you can prove the ownership.

Thanks a lot for the tip but my point still stands.

I was never into Apple and after this my wife decided to move away too so we don't care anymore.

>Well last time I got angry down votes for saying this. But you are really renting if apple can lock you out.

Only in the same way that you're "only renting" a safelock if you can lock it and are not able to open it (e.g. by forgetting the lock, or having some key inside).

>My non technical wife managed to lock herself out of her device and icloud with no recourse as I didn't preserve the reciept.

That's a security feature. If there was a recourse then locking the device (when you're done using it for the moment) would be security theater.

> That's a security feature. If there was a recourse then locking the device ....

Oh come-on a thousands of Harrys working in Apple store can unlock.

Not things secured by the secure enclave and set to mathematically unlockable.

Million of "Happys working in Apple store" couldn't unlock your FileVault disk for example if you don't have the password / key etc.

Please don't misread. This is not about who can read the encrypted drive. It is more basic than that.

Apple locked us out of device we paid for. We just wanted to use it again completely wiping it off. Random Harry working for Apple can do that but we as legitimate owners can't.

So with respect to owning vs renting argument, How I am owning the device?

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