Isn’t it strange that you have to make a disclaimer like “please don’t judge me?”. Quite literally 1/2 of the USA voted for Trump, should you automatically be ashamed of that?
(It’s easy for me to say ofc, I have no horse in this race)
(It’s easy for me to say ofc, I have no horse in this race)
Their worst right now is much worse than expected, I would be ashamed to be associated.
I think the vast, vast majority of people believe in non-violent protest and giving people room to express their views and hurt and frustration in non-violent ways.
I think politicians and the media is largely responsible for trying to paint groups they don’t like with an overly broad brush, and we should outright reject that as Americans.
The political flame war has to stop. The vast majority of Democrats and Republicans are in fact reasonable, kind, loving people who still believe in America even if it’s no longer popular to admit it.
The challenge is the fringe voices are amplified a million times more than the center-mass.
I read an interesting Twitter thread last week on how housing policy in SF is basically totally dominated by 6 people, private citizens, who scream down anyone who would dare to offer an opposing view, and are successful in setting policy with these tactics. I don’t know if that’s fully true, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
This doesn't follow. Trump has been promoting violence since 2016. There have been multiple attacks carried out by Trump supporters. Most Republicans think the election was stolen thanks to Trump. Anyone who was surprised by this hasn't been paying attention to the blatantly obvious signs that have been on display nor to the repeated warnings by many, many people saying this is where things were headed. I'm in no way surprised this happened. Why were so many other people?
And to be fair their stance is not totally unreasonable. On both isles of the political spectrum most voters for some candidate ignore at least part of what the candidate says _and_ does. No candidate perfectly matches up with what you think should be done, that's normal and expected, democracy isn't perfect. A part of this process is trying to guess what the political candidate really thinks/believes vs what they say just to gain political capital. All people living in a democracy learn to do this early on. I guess for many Trump supporters they guessed that even with all the seemingly violence inducing rhetoric it wouldn't end up with a mob assaulting a federal government institution. Mistakes were made. :)
And it's a lot more complicated than who you voted for out of two choices.
And the real problem is first past the post, not the way you look at the votes.
> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
That being said, identifying that the support for Trump is about 50/50 does not _really_ tell the right story here with thedonald.win -- this isn't a representative of the ~half of us in the US who voted for Trump (or would if we voted)...it's a representation of a small, extreme culture, part real and part just trolling.
I doubt OP would have apologized quite so hard for watching Fox News. Fox News's editorial content is somewhat to the right of the average Republican voter, but not by nearly as much as thedonald.win -- that's something that represents mainstream Trump voter (aka Republican voter) worldview.
The problem here is that the leader is going out of his way to specifically engage and this minority group by committing as many atrocities as possible.
This is one of the top threads on that site RIGHT NOW. Its easy to judge someone participating in that discussion.
No, they didn't.
According to Pew, the non-voter block is much less white, less educated, and poorer than the voting population. You can probably make several cases for which way that block breaks, but I would certainly not say they would vote proportionally the same as voters.
And the assumption that people who choose to vote have an equal distribution of political views to those who choose not to vote is ludicrous; people who, if they voted, would only vote for someone who isn't a major party candidate are going to be vastly overrepresented among nonvoters simply because they are more likely to feel participation is futile; it would be less inaccurate than assuming equal distribution—but still inaccurate—to assume every eligible nonvoter is equivalent to a vote against at least all of the major party candidates.
or did you count in people not eligible to vote? like kids and foreigners?
23.5+% voted against Trump.
Edit to add: Downvoting facts?
I dont have a horse in the race neither other than stock market.
It's not that strange. It's why elections are supposed to be confidential. Public opinion is always going to shift. During Clinton's reign we had the clinton crazies who hated him. George W bush? Did anyone like him? Obama derangement was readily labelled racism. Now Trump derangement is very strong. Biden will have his haters, that's coming.
However, the derangement is real and even the illusion you're for trump will gain you hate.
Because so much of it was tinged with racism
> Now Trump derangement is very strong
Yes some people are under the mistaken impression that there's anything good about Trump and therefore suprised when he doesn't seem to care for the future of our democracy and our country even a tiny bit
So even winning, it doesn’t really need to be that close to half of the U.S.
Not to say that isn’t a sizable chunk or anything.
Hacker News is a news site so I imagine little to no one on the Trump train is here.
[1] https://www.theroot.com/white-supremacists-killed-more-peopl...
Google trends: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...
That is to say, the US attitude towards free speech is not somehow the result of some very wise collective, it simply hasn't had the history to affect its attitude towards it in the same way that European countries have.
Ask a Native American (or one of dozens of other groups whose vilification enabled their oppression and murder), or maybe read a history book? We Americans aren't less experienced than Europeans; we're just more committed.
I think you may be right that ethnic genocide alone may not be enough to change a whole population's opinions around free speech rights, that there may be additional factors required such as general awareness of how bad it was to engage in such acts and what contributed to those acts.
Free speech protections weren't obviously relevant to the genocide as it has occurred, although it wouldn't surprise me to learn e.g. that a native counterpart to Frederick Douglass had been silenced unfairly. As for speech in the other direction, the worst things were said (and done) by the "greatest statesmen" [0] so I doubt that corporate speech codes would have been much help. If it isn't too presumptuous of me to observe, it's unlikely that such things would have done much to slow down Hitler or Mussolini either.
[0] https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/nice-day-for-a-genoci...
That said, reading what people are saying in an effort to understand and to de-radicalize is not something to be ashamed of.
Are you talking about donald trump or joe biden?
> People who voted for Donald Trump should be ashamed of their vote.
Using your logic, those who voted for corrupt biden should be ashamed as well.
> That said, reading what people are saying in an effort to understand and to de-radicalize is not something to be ashamed of.
Have you taken a look in the mirror. People like you are what's wrong with the country. Extremist and blind to their own faults.
We had two choices this year. Maybe I'll phrase it in a way you can understand. On the one hand, we had a "corrupt, evil rich privileged white male" and on the other hand, we had a "corrupt, evil rich privileged white male".
People like you whine about rich privileged corrupt white males all the time and yet are slaving over a rich privileged corrupt white male.
On the other hand, one candidate lost a son to drug overdose. One candidate had debunked conspiracy theories regarding their other son's interactions with Ukraine.
Do I think that Biden is perfect? Gosh, no. Do I think he is a good person? I don't know if it is possible to be a truly good person while holding any high office. Do I think that Biden is a better person and a better choice than Trump? Absolutely.
That's what Republicans and Trump supporters say too. You are tired of it because it's true.
> One candidate refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power.
Neither candidate committed to it. The DNC was going to do exactly what the RNC did.
"Hillary Clinton said in a new interview that Joe Biden should not concede the 2020 presidential election “under any circumstances," anticipating issues that could prolong knowing the final outcome."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clint...
> One candidate has a history of racial bias (Central Park 5, apartment zoning, Judge Curiel, etc.).
Yes and Biden help push a law that sent millions of minorities to prison.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-controversial-19...
> One candidate openly asked for and received aid from a foreign nation.
Are you for real? Biden and his son's ukraine, russia, china, etc endeavors are just as bad or worse.
> One candidate built up a mob and pointed them at the Capitol in an attempted coup.
Right. And no rioting from biden's side.
The only people who think like you are brainwashed political zealots. You are part of the problem. The only difference between you and a tea party or trumpist is political party affiliation. That's it. And it doesn't really matter because DNC and RNC are ultimately on the same team. They serve the same master. And it isn't the american people.
But whatever, you do you and keep up the good fight.
I may be mistaken, but you sound like the type who cries about "privileged white males". But man, you sure do love Biden.
The false equivalency narrative you're spewing is tiresome. Trump's record is an unprecedented disaster. There is no equivalent.