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Comment by Exuma | Hacker News Reader

Please cite me tweets/descriptions of where he incited anything. He said something like "we will remember this day," and not long after condemned violence and supported law enforcement. Then the next day he condemned it again.

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You're either being willfully ignorant, or arguing in bad faith.

Calling for your people to all organize outside of the capitol building, claiming that the election was fraudulent without providing evidence, and then telling the active terrorists "we love you" should be sufficient evidence for you.

Don’t forget the calls for Total War and Trial by Combat from his son and lawyer.

Or for the execution of Pence by Lin Wood (targeting Pence specifically is something I've also seen in several quotes from the insurrectionists.)

You are making assumptions on what was in President Trump's brain from a few short tweets. The white house is on the opposite side of the mall as the congress building. How do you know he wasn't saying "we love you" to the huge turnout of people gathered around the Washington monument right near the white house? How do you know he was specifically praising the tiny minority of the protestors that broke into congress?

The President is responsible for his words and actions, not solely his feelings and thoughts. If he can't effectively communicate his intention to the point he 'accidentally' whips is supporters into a seditious frenzy that makes him unfit for office.

He literally gave an hour long speech minutes before they attacked our nation's capitol.

Did you mean to post that link? It's not a link to the hour-long speech. Does anyone have a link to it? I would be interested to hear what he said.

Not sure what THAT video is "showing", but let's look at the actual speech...

You can see/hear/read (via transcript) starting about here: https://youtu.be/ht20eDYmLXU?t=10186

Romney, American Elections, Press "enemy of the people", American 3rd world country, Republicans Fighting/Boxing, Fight Bad People, Pence and Constitution, Congress addressing assault on country, Walk down to Capitol with me, Show strength and be strong, Demand congress do the right thing lawfully, March over peacefully and patriotically make voices heard, Integrity of elections and country, Country under siege, blah blah

Get up to the final incite: https://youtu.be/ht20eDYmLXU?t=13513

and it's had a tremendous impact that we got rid of catch and release we got rid of all of the stuff that we had to live with but now the caravans they think biden's getting in the caravans are forming again they want to come in again and rip off our country can't let it happen as this enormous crowd shows we have truth and justice on our side we have a deep and enduring love for america in our hearts we love our country we have overwhelming pride in this great country and we have it deep in our souls together we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people by the people and for the people our brightest days are before us our greatest achievements still wait i think one of our great achievements will be election security because nobody until i came along had any idea how corrupt our elections were and again most people would stand there at nine o'clock in the evening and say i want to thank you very much and they go off to some other life but i said something's wrong here something's really wrong can't have happened and we fight we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell you're not gonna have a country anymore our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun my fellow americans for our movement for our children and for our beloved country and i say this despite all that's happened the best is yet to come so we're going to we're going to walk down pennsylvania avenue i love pennsylvania and we're going to the capitol and we're going to try and give the democrats are hopeless they're never voting for anything not even one vote but we're going to try and give our republicans the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help we're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country so let's walk down pennsylvania avenue i want to thank you all god bless you and god bless america thank you all for being here this is incredible thank you very much

“Will be wild” was a little sketchy.

But you are more right than wrong, he could easily have channeled all that energy into something truly horrible just by saying “It’s the Socialists! Let’s get the bastards!”

This is like people who think judges are dumb and apply the law mechanically and strictly as written without any room for context or nuance.

The fact is there is a history of Trump supporters turning violent after Trump rallies and speeches. It’s an established pattern that requires willfully ignoring to contend he has plausible deniability.

It's no different than BLM members burning down cities. There's this sort of thing on both sides which don't represent the larger group.

Also, FWIW, I don't support anything remotely close to storming building, but people on the left certainly are quick to blame when I've watched exact same thing happen over the last year or two.

Tu quoque doesn’t change what Trump did.

The beauty (and horror) of a lot of Trump's incitement is he always does it implicitly as opposed to explicitly. It's not about quotes and verbage as much as meaning and intent.

That being said, his incitement Wednesday was actually pretty explicit. From the Times: Trump said "If you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore" before urging supporters to go to the capital. Sounds like a pretty powerful incitement from a sitting President.

Urging supporters to go to the capital “peacefully” using that explicit qualifier. You still have a point, but be transparent about it.

Just because he followed up with "peacefully" later doesn't negate him saying 'fight like hell'. I mean, most of the problematic things Trump has said have been followed/preceded by things intended to make them look less problematic.

I wasn't intentionally leaving anything out though, I took that quote directly from the Times.

The Times intentionally left that out. Notwithstanding earlier inflammatory language, this is the exact quote:

“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard today.”

You may believe that the word “patriotically” was a dog-whistle, but none of the headlines characterized the statement correctly.

> Please cite me tweets/descriptions of where he incited anything.

It's not gonna happen, because it didn't happen. I've asked everyone I know to cite the same thing, and no one has been able to. Of course, that won't stop the narrative, because truth has become irrelevant.

EDIT: I find it amusing that even the people that have responded to you so far, still haven't actually cited anything yet.

You're either lazy or willfully ignorant, here's him showing support for the protest in some deleted tweets:

https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/13450881...

https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/13469549...

https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/13469004...

Here's a video that he posted after the events at the capitol that was deleted where he keeps suggesting the election was stolen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcfcTB9-S2s

Terrible examples, the 3rd one was after the event, the first one literally isn't inciting anything unless you have a sheer irrational hatred for trump and only see things through an incredibly one dimensional, emotional POV where he can't even scratch his chin without it upsetting you.

Because I've already done this for so many other people that I'm exhausted. Go f*cking read the speech yourself. What did he think would happen when he asked his supporters to "talk to their representatives" literally as they are voting? Go have a nice cup of tea?

They are sea-lioning. They are going to constantly ask for "evidence", and then when provided for it, act as if it's biased/false/non-existant and then restate the question. The goal is to put all the labor of the conversation and gathering of sources onto you while they just get to reply: "I don't believe that, the MSM is biased, show me another source".

Are you claiming MSM isn't biased?

Are you claiming specifically biased-right-wing <insert journal name> isn't biased? MSM (CNN, CNBC, MSNBC) is 10% as biased (to the left), Fox (probably 50% biased to the right), etc. Least biased is probably Reuters, AP, and PBS, and maybe NPR.

Local news is usually not so biased either.

But Washington Times, Breitbart, Random Youtube Vlogger, etc...none of those can be trusted. That's why they're never linked to on Hackernews, except maybe in comments, I'd imagine.

They're basically tabloids. Good to cross-reference with Snopes or Politifact if you are curious what's true. Personally, I like to read multiple sources and google a topic to get a better picture to see other 'takes'. Only way to not get bubble/group think.

x86_64Ubuntu forgot to add "or they'll change the topic".

“We’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol,” said Mr. Trump. “We’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.”

From https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-tells-rioters-i-know-how-...

I'm going to presume the WSJ did their work properly and you can watch him say those words in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X0KIYInLHc - that's a 70 minute long speech claiming (not in the exact words) "we have been defrauded!" and then saying those words. Make a less-than-intelligent, not-shy-to-use-violence (should I cite the demographics of Trump voters for you?), crowd mad and then tell them "We're going to go there and give them a piece of our mind.", geez, what do you expect was going to happen?

No, he never uttered "I want you to go there and beat up the cops with anything you find, break the windows, vandalize the building, and terrorize those lawmakers so they put me back into power.", he's smart enough to never explicitly say things that will get him in trouble, just like the 11780 phone call or asking Comey to back off from Michael Flynn.

"And after this, we're going to walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd. "And we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."

He told people to go to the capital, "take back our country", and you can't do it with weakness, you need to do it with strength. That seems pretty straightforward to me. And he did it all while fanning the flames by repeating discredited conspiracy theories that he knows plays to the people in attendance.

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