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Comment by Analemma_ | Hacker News Reader

“Death to X” is an overly-literal translation of a common Persian idiom of frustration, eagerly and maliciously repeated by motivated parties to make Iranians look as dangerous as possible. It’s essentially the Persian equivalent to “fuck X”, and so this is as though you had your arm bitten off by a shark and said, “Fuck sharks!”, and someone deliberately took that to mean you endorse bestiality.

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This is a lie. The chant is literally "Death to X," there is no idiom whatsoever. The only human targets I have ever heard for this chant is the US and some of its allies (KSA, UK), the IR's leader, and some generic terms for the outgroup ("monafegh").

This should may help you, and other interested persons determine whether or not marg bar Amrika is to be taken literally, or is indeed an idiom (btw, it is):

In Persian, "Death to America" is "marg bar Amrika"

Common Persian phrases, and these are everyday phrases in Iran include:

1) Marg! Literally, Death!, closest we have in English: Shut up!

2) Khabare margesh! Literally, the news of his/her death! This is used with someone you don't like, as in, you're only interested in the news of that persons death (perhaps a politician is a typical example).

3) Boro bemir! Literally, Go die! Again, in English, the equivalent is along the lines of Shut Up!

4) Che margeshe? Literally, what's his death? Used mostly for objects, such as when your car won't start.

5) Marge man, literally, my death. Used when you are swearing you are telling the truth.

Iranians have so many idioms/expressions/figures-of-speech related to Death, this is just a small sample.

During the protests last year, Sohrab Ahmari, no friend of the IRI, chose to translate the phrase as "Down with the dictator". I wonder why.

Are there good secondary sources for this? This alleged perversion strikes me as a significant linchpin in the structural animosity between the two people. I really want it to be true, so am particularly hesitant to accept it without compelling evidence.

This may help:

In Persian, "Death to America" is "marg bar Amrika"

Common Persian phrases, and these are everyday phrases in Iran include:

1) Marg! Literally, Death!, closest we have in English: Shut up!

3) Boro bemir! Literally, Go die! Again, in English, the equivalent is along the lines of Shut Up!

4) Che margeshe? Literally, what's his death? Used mostly for objects, such as when your car won't start.

5) Marge man, literally, my death. Used when you are swearing you are telling the truth.

Iranians have so many expressions/figures-of-speech related to Death.

Seems... well, pretty violent. And strangely dedicated to wishing death/finality upon everything.

That’s stark when most cultures draw on disgust (excrement etc) or some kind of power/possession dynamic (fucking, owning, etc).

Maybe https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/world/middleeast/some-ira... (there's also a Wikipedia article). I think a good comparison may also be "damn Kubernetes", you're not literally damning some technology. It's less clear in the phrase "damn you to hell". I think it's kind of similar, it's overloaded.

> I think a good comparison may also be "damn Kubernetes", you're not literally damning some technology.

The only reason I don't mean that literally is because a: I'm fairly sure Hell doesn't exist, and b: if it did, I support and endorse most of the people there (eg blasphemers, scientists and other heretics, homosexuals and other deviants, and of course heathens, infidels, and apostates) and would not wish to inflict Kubernetes on them, even if the resulting increase in suffering would only be a rounding error.

I think you have a valid point in general, but in this case I would, in fact, prefer for Kubernetes to be gone from the world entirely, and I don't think this is by any means a unique position, either regarding Kubernetes, or in the general case of "damn X".

I thought it was the equivalent of “damn you” or “go to hell”. Or “leave us alone”.

Even if it does literally mean 'death to America,' as an American I always interpreted that as being directed at the American government. I never took it personally. Hell, I could probably wear them out complaining about the federal government.

It offends all those who are patriotic to America no matter who or how the government is. Remember this came out in the 70s when the sayings were Love it or Leave it.

Also when the concept is paired with imagery of a Nuclear Iran, you can’t help but feel attacked.

Nah. I love my country dearly, but I don't feel attacked at all.

My country has done a lot of stupid stuff in the Middle East. I get why they're upset. They should be. Fair enough.

It would be nice for us to move past the petty hatred over things that happened 50 years ago.

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