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Comment by pbhjpbhj | Hacker News Reader

I (from the UK) don't understand: you don't have to join a union. Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want.

It's 'take greater combined power against the corporation you work for' (and in things like representation of your industry before government) or stand on your own as you do now.

I don't understand how it's possible to lose?

You can even wimp out at the first call for solidarity of you want to.

In my current role there are 3 unions that are well represented in the work place, I chose one that seems best to represent my interests and that has members in industries I might move in to.

Benefits for me are currently advice seminars on career progression and work related issues (pensions!), and annual pay negotiations (which are quite weak, pressing for inflationary pay rises).

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>Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want.

Union contracts with the company typically bar the company from keeping or entering contracts with non-union workers that have different terms from those of the union.

In many (23) US states, when a union forms at a workplace, it can compel all non-union workers to pay fees to the union, weather they want to join or not.

I think most US workers would be for unions if they were presented as you described, where you can choose between different options or working without a union.

From TFA:

"Arranged as a members-only union, the new organization won’t seek collective bargaining rights to negotiate a new contract with the company. Instead, the Alphabet Workers Union will only represent employees who voluntarily join, as reported by the New York Times. That structure will also allow it to represent all employees who seek to participate — including temps, vendors, and contractors (known internally as TVCs) who would be excluded by labor law from conventional collective bargaining."

That sounds to me awfully like a voluntary union, though I'm not familiar with the laws allowing unions in various US states to compel non-members to join.

I was speaking to US unions in general. Your quote matches my understanding of the Alphabet Workers Union as well, which is essentially the same thing as a social club. It provides no legal protections, and Alphabet has legal obligation to recognize them.

That's not to say I don't like like the idea, which I prefer to traditional Unions where participation is forced.

That's not true though -- union membership is still legally protected even if a contract isn't negotiated.

That requires a vote of 50%+1 of all eligible employees (not just voters) though, to certify the union as the employee representative, followed by regular elections to union leadership. It's not like a few dozen people can just seize control over union dues and negotiation for the whole workplace.

Agreed, I was just explaining how union shops work he US. I am not aware of any significant "members-only" unions in the united states

> Union contracts with the company typically bar the company from keeping or entering contracts with non-union workers that have different terms from those of the union.

I believe that's incorrect. IIRC, the contracts apply the specific classes of workers at specific locations.

I have a friend who works in HR and I know for a fact that their company has different locations that do similar work: some are nonunion, some are union, and the union locations do not all have the same union.

That makes sense, although I would argue he parent post still holds true in that you may not be able to keep your contract and avoid union dues if your workplace forms a union

In a lot of cases, once there's a union you're either in it or unemployed. Unions have a lot of benefits and a lot of negatives. But voting to have one without knowing what _this specific one_ will have either way, knowing that you _must_ be part of it if it passes... that's not a clear decision.

In this case it would be me against a group of employee activists with goals I don't agree with plus the executive leadership. So now I'm powerless against two groups. Even from their announcement post it sounds like they're mostly in favor of political activism and not a single whiff of anything that would actually make my life any better.

This is not how most unions in America work. Usually the entire workforce is represented by (and pays dues to) the same union. Today's Google/Alphabet thing may be an exception to this.

Additionally to RHSeeger@'s note, in some countries even if you did not join the union, you still have to pay the dues, and take on the new contract.

> I (from the UK) don't understand: you don't have to join a union. Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want.

That's not how American unions work. If you don't join the union, you can't work there.

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