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Comment by dghouk | Hacker News Reader

Skylines is far more flexible than the author gives it credit for. At this point it’s more of a platform for community content than a game, it would be very common to see almost no vanilla resources used (maybe besides roads) in a build. The vanilla assets are often both ugly and poorly optimized, something from Steam can look more realistic while also having fewer triangles! See the “low poly trees” collection for an example.

It’s also very common for the player to use place every building manually, contrary to to the author’s table. If you check out /r/CitiesSkylines or YouTube, anything that looks really good is likely done this way.

The game also doesn’t force you to prefer transit vs. cars, it’s very flexible and you can build an Asian, European, or American (NYC or “sprawl”) styles easily. YouTube examples I can think of:

- Nydal - European – Marble Mountain – American (California) – Kobyashi Island – Japanese

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My only criticism of Skylines is that it’s not a game, it’s just an art board for painting cities that move. There aren’t enough meaningful challenges to building your city, the reward for playing comes from making something aesthetically appealing.

> the reward for playing comes from making something aesthetically appealing

More like "The reward comes from playing with your own objectives and succeeding at them" which is one of the hallmarks of sandbox games, not just Cities: Skylines in particular.

I've played Cities: Skylines quite a bit, the genre is my favorite one. While I agree the game doesn't force you into completing arbitrary objectives, I've found it quite challenging myself, but that's also because I setup my own objectives to be challenging.

Indeed, if you DO actually try to "play" and build a functioning city, the inability to handle traffic in any way basically stops you dead at small town size

City Skylines is a one-dimensional "game", in that all problems revolve around traffic.

There's NOTHING wrong with that!! Traffic simulation is incredibly hard, and its very fun to resolve that issue (or "attempt" to resolve the issue). To truly solve traffic problems requires you to understand how and why all the cars are moving the way they do.

The main issue IMO with City Skylines, is that once you "solve" the traffic problem (which is almost always a combination of Highway -> 3-way Artery road with few intersections -> "cul-de-sac" style distribution of cars to their final endpoints + a few mass-transit options), there's nothing else to the game. All problems start, and end, with traffic management.

As such, if you're already a "traffic expert" (due to playing games like Factorio or OpenTTD beforehand), you can quickly build an optimal City Skylines setup and then have not much else to do.

SimCity was truly a game with multiple dimensions. Skylines is mostly a traffic simulatior (a good one, but still... "just" a traffic simulator).

> you can quickly build an optimal City Skylines setup and then have not much else to do

You can definitely get to an optimal state then stop, but you can also keep growing. As the city grows, it requires refactoring roads and public transit to keep things going.

I recently got the Industries add-on, and found that also adds an interesting dimension: as you add factories, they require more of certain types of raw materials and I find myself wishing I had made the farming zone bigger, for example, debating if I should raze this nearby 5-star neighborhood, reroute a well-flowing multi-lane highway, or start a second zone somewhere else.

I kind of like I can get it to an equilibrium and stop, while not feeling like I'm leaving it unfinished. I tend to play for a couple weeks then take a break for a few months.

> debating if I should raze this nearby 5-star neighborhood,

In real life, could a city do this (outside of forcing people out of their homes with military power)? Are there checks and limits on how much eminent domain can do in terms of claiming already-owned land?

I'm not sure about the city taking your house, but certainly they can approve rezoning areas, and demolition and construction permits. If a developer gets approval and can purchase every house, there's not much difference (though at least owners are compensated, hopefully more than fairly).

Once the vast majority of your neighborhood signs on, you don't really have much choice. You can hold out for a better offer, but you might also have them literally just build around you [1].

[1] https://www.boredpanda.com/stubborn-home-owners-refuse-to-se...

> SimCity was truly a game with multiple dimensions.

I keep hearing this, but what other dimensions does it have?

I remember playing SimCity in highschool and can't really remember anything it has that City Skylines does not. That is likely due to multi-decade-old memories and not that it actually lacks those dimensions.

I played SimCity 2000 off of GOG a few months ago (around when I was also playing City Skylines). A few things:

1. SimCity2000 has much higher relative costs for infrastructure. Roads, Police, Firefighters, etc. etc. cost lots of recurring money, to the point where a typical player even on $20,000 "Easy" mode will probably fail the first few times they play. I've never run out of money on City Skylines, literally never. But even with all my experience on SimCity 2000, I can "fail to bootstrap" on medium ($10,000) or hard (Bonds/Debt) mode. (Especially if an unlucky early game fire disaster happens). In contrast, the recurring costs in Skylines is so puny that I forget about that aspect entirely.

2. Disasters in Sim City 2000 force you to rebuild occasionally. Or at least, carefully consider the placement of your items. (Ex: low-lands may flood, getting destroyed. Airplanes may crash, causing fires near airports). Despite being a pain in the ass, the chaos of disasters grossly changes the feel.

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Ultimately, Skylines has more similarities to Rollercoaster Tycoon and/or Tropico than SimCity. Skylines simulates every individual sim (with HEAVY emphasis on traffic). The emergent behavior of each individual sim following simple rules is a particular style of gameplay.

However, SimCity was more of a abstract economic simulator, where larger decisions had more pronounced effects. Opening commercial roads to neighbors would create trade between cities. Airports and/or seaports need to be managed with your neighbors. This style of gameplay: a "big picture" city simulator, ultimately plays extremely differently than City Skylines.

In City Skylines: building an airport or seaport causes a traffic spike that you need to manage. In SimCity, building an airport or seaport causes an increase in commercial demand and/or industrial demand. Its just fundamentally different.

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Really: its just that one thing: Skylines's infrastructure costs are laughably low. There's no worry about ever running out of money... no matter what you build, you're always flush with cash.

In SimCity, you'd worry whether or not you've saved up enough cash to bootstrap a new section of your city. In Skylines, you just build it, and if it doesn't work (unforeseen traffic issues or whatnot), delete it and build it again.

SimCity 4, in addition to the density axis, had wealth. You could have high density low income districts and low density high income districts and all sorts of things. The different wealth classes demanded different services and jobs, had different commuting requirements, etc. And districts desirability changed over time as conditions changed, so you could have a formerly high-wealth condo become a low-wealth slum; the building would be the same but have a dilapidated appearance, etc.

As much as I like Cities Skylines, it kind of assumes that everyone can aspire to live in a nice high rise condo with solar panels on the roof.

A road layout using concentric circles with spokes works too.

Designing your city in a way that allows traffic to flow (and takes advantage of traffic alternatives such as the myriad of public transit options you can design and build) is one of those "meaningful challenges" that you're supposed to play through. That's kind of the point.

Someone needs to know Lane Mathematics and proper round-a-bout setup :)

https://youtube.com/c/BiffaPlaysIndie/search?query=lane+math...

bish bash bosh sips tea hugo there, and hugo there

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