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Comment by sradman | Hacker News Reader

> References in Greek texts from the 4th century BC are IMO suggestive of early voyages to the coast of West Africa, the nearest navigable mangrove forests (unless shipworm managed to somehow get carried across the Sinai isthmus)

Simon Winchester discusses how Cape Bojador [1] was impassible until 1443 (in his book Atlantic [2]) so it is unlikely that early voyages reached any further south along the coast of West Africa. During Roman times there were indeed canals to the Red Sea [3] and a robust international trade system as outlined in the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea [4].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador

[2] http://www.simonwinchester.com/atlantic

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_of_the_Pharaohs

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periplus_of_the_Erythraean_Sea

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What about Cape Bojador made it impassible for so long? I know essentially nothing about navigation or ships in general besides that they don't travel over land particularly well[0], so if you know of an easy to digest resource I'd really appreciate it.

[0]: except near Constantinople, obviously

The Wikipedia article says it’s a combination of dangerous shallows and unfavorable winds all year near the shore. The way to avoid those was to sail around it, beyond the sight of land. This was something ancient ships couldn’t do because they relied on seeing the land for navigation.

> The way to avoid those was to sail around it...

The problem was that ships were swept out to sea and couldn't sail in any direction other than certain death (or the Americas). The Volta do Mar gave the Portuguese a safety net to experiment with navigating Cape Bojador without the certain death aspect. Careful data collection (speed/direction of the ship/wind/water-current) and vector math provided a set of sailing instructions that was akin to a set of dance steps. The Portuguese sailed around the Cape of Good Hope but they navigated Cape Bojador with an algorithm.

What I find fascinating is that such a monumental moment in history is not well known.

Ah, you're right. I did actually click that link but something about the way that article is written made scanning for the specific thing I was after while tired very difficult.

I'll re-evaluate this perception after I've slept, but it feels like key facts are buried in storytelling in a way I don't see often on Wikipedia. Could just be me, I'm not sure.

Edit: I think what I'm describing is a textbook example of a buried lede.

I agree with you, it's overwritten. Would be interesting for a Wikipedia editor to explain how this tourist-history style differs from the accepted Wikipedia style.

I had similar thoughts when reading the article. It's written in a quite an unusual storytelling style without clearly summarizing the key points.

The book Atlantic is where I came across it. Sand shoals force ships into the currents of the North Atlantic Gyre which the Portuguese mastered before tackling the Cape Bojador problem; see Volta do Mar [1] which has a great diagram.

The problem was solved with math.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volta_do_mar

I appreciate your terse explanation! The "Historical significance" section on the Cape Bojador is impenetrable in my current tired state.

OP's first link qualifies as an easy to digest resource on the subject.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador)

The Wikipedia article referenced in parent gives good detail on the problems Cape Bojador posed for early sailors.

> Simon Winchester discusses how Cape Bojador [1] was impassible until 1443 (in his book Atlantic [2])

He also wrote Pacific. :)

Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa, Greeks knew about that.

https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2018/11/the-egyptian-phoen...

Interesting:

> As it can be appreciated, that voyage followed the opposite direction to those that the Portuguese would do centuries later: instead of sail south the Atlantic Ocean and round the Cape of Good Hope to the east, they had to sail from Egypt in summer, cross the Red Sea (the Arabian Gulf which Herodotus says) taking advantage of the north wind and leaving behind the Horn of Africa.

So it is possible/likely that the Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa in a clockwise direction while the Portuguese solved the harder problem of circumnavigating Africa counter-clockwise.

Back to the original question: how did shipworms get to ancient Greece? Both narratives support the idea that shipworms were most likely carried from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea. The question is how early the Canal of the Pharaohs was operational. The shipworms may actual help set this date.

I wonder if a Phoenician equivalent of the Roman/Byzantine Periplus of the Erythraean Sea existed in Carthage and was lost after the Third Punic War.

Ships were often carried across land, for example over Isthmus of Corinth. Ship wood was also expensive, maybe they took and reused some parts...

Right, assuming shipworms could survive the extended period on land.

Their report that the sun was to their right as they rounded the Cape helped cement skepticism of the achievement.

Your source is not a credible one. It is merely speculative armchair history along the lines of a Gavin Menzies or Graham Hancock.

It quotes Herodotus, this is first link from google, wiki has some pages as well. I am not an historian, but it seems credible. Some details are matching.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho_II

Specifically [1]:

> At some point between 610 and before 594 BC, Necho reputedly commissioned an expedition of Phoenicians, who it is said in three years sailed from the Red Sea around Africa back to the mouth of the Nile; and would thereby be the first completion of the Cape Route. Herodotus' account was handed down to him by oral tradition, but is seen as potentially credible because he stated with disbelief that the Phoenicians "as they sailed on a westerly course round the southern end of Libya (Africa), they had the sun on their right"—to northward of them (The Histories 4.42).

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho_II#Phoenician_expediti...

The Histories [1] by Herodotus is more than mere speculation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histories_(Herodotus)

While Herodotus may serve as a motivation for someone to make such a claim, the OP did not link to either Herodotus or to a reputable scholarly commentary on Herodotus. He linked to a pop-sci website with an obsession with fringe history – just look at some of the other wacky things on La Brujula Verde.

I read the article and it is sound. I know nothing about the nature of the other articles this website publishes. This is nothing like Graham Hancock pseudo-science.

Graham Hancock has never pretended to be a scientist, so what he writes is, by definition, not pseudoscience. "I don't like it" also does not define pseudoscience, as much as some wish otherwise.

Much of it is pure speculation, and rot, but his direct observations -- he actually does go places, and takes copious, excellent photographs (his wife is a pro) -- have proven reliable; much more so than his armchair critics. He is scrupulously careful to distinguish observation from speculation, something many of his critics could learn from.

Ignore both the speculation and the armchair critics, and you may learn, too.

Actually this theory comes from Raymond Mauny: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Mauny

See the original 1955 paper (in French) : https://www.persee.fr/doc/rea_0035-2004_1955_num_57_1_3523

>Worse, the ferrous rocks make compass needles whirl erratically

ok, now that's a bit over the top, but that cape being impassible helps make sense of world history a bit

> a robust international trade system

A list of various trade routes, dating from ancient times to the Middle Ages:

* https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/86338/8-trade-routes-sha...

A cool map of Medieval trade routes:

* https://www.visualcapitalist.com/medieval-trade-route-map/

'Globalism' / global trade isn't anything new.

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