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Comment by zm262 | Hacker News Reader

I guess this kind of news paints the wrong picture, or more likely to believe in this kind of thing. The more likely case is that, there are a bunch of people who are unemployable having no skills or lack motivations to work or happen to be in miserable conditions (like the homeless in US) were forced (yes) to enter this kind of "de-radicalization camps", monitored (yes) and _given_ an opportunity to get employment (like an internship for students) and get _paid_ the market salary. Yes they were forced to have a job that they can potentially do (the work conditions are like other "normal" apple factory workers). If they decline, well they need to go back to the "school"..

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I translated your comment.

> The more likely case is that, there are a bunch of people who are unemployable having no skills or lack motivations to work or happen to be in miserable conditions (like the homeless in US) were forced (yes) to enter this kind of "de-radicalization camps", monitored (yes) and _given_ an opportunity to get employment (like an internship for students) and get _paid_ the market salary. Yes they were forced to have a job that they can potentially do (the work conditions are like other "normal" apple factory workers). If they decline, well they need to go back to the "school"..

This news makes it more likely to believe in this kind of thing.

zm262, I improvedthe grammar in your comment.

Unfortunately, the free flow of uncensored news has made you aware of something I don't want you to know.

These people are no help to themselves, and do not want to do what the government tells them to do, even though it would be greatly beneficial. They are monitored, of course, as all radicals should be. The US has no right to complain. After all, they also have useless, dirty homeless people, which are pretty much the same thing.. Furthermore, these prisoners are even paid for their work! What more do they want!?

If they decline, they should be sent back to their interment camps.

Thanks, that lays the idea better than I can. But some of it was misunderstood, or perhaps I used the wrong words. Most of what you said is truthful to my original comment.

Let me share a bit more from my experience living in China for 20 years. In China, taking street people (mostly beggars or orphans who were used by gangs as pick-pockets or whatnot) into custody is systematic for as long as I can remember. (There's news that this system is to be abolished in 2021 by a new law amendment.) It's systematic as there are full-time employees who job is to do this. It is considered "help" by the general society (but there could be abuses by bad actors for sure), the system has good intentions. Because they are not criminals, it's not exactly like prison but it is true that they are taken by force to go through a "program" where they need to listen to propaganda, be educated or trained for a certain skills (mostly factory jobs such as making toys, shoes etc.) and be forced to work at a given place for a certain period. The system is not perfect, it is outright offensive to "individual freedom" (where you are "free" to be just like the US homeless drug addicts). But it is net positive for the society by sacrificing some of these people who are unwilling to go through it.

This is just a small piece of what China calls "Wei Wen" ("maintain stability"). The employees who work on those people are more akin to what is called "social workers" in US. They are institutionalized to have a budget to pay for food and training costs and the work to look out for job opportunities for these people (frankly the factory owners generally don't want to employee these people). These employees make a government salary. The factory owners get frankly sloppy workers they don't like but have to cooperate with the government. But this type of work eventually pays off to society when many of these people get out of their old life tracks by having a job and skill where they can stop being beggars or thieves.

If you could trade some of your certainty for empathy both you and the `unemployables` would be much better off.

China is a society that traditionally (from its culture and also political ideology) values "the collective value" more than the individual value. It has always been the case, which is important to understand the mindset of the government and the Chinese society in general. The "unemploytables" constitute a "problem" to society, which must be solved. This is not much different than prostitution is a "problem" for most countries. If you follow Xi Jinping's rule and his propaganda (which I doubt), his big agenda for 2020 is to "eradicate" poverty, this makes it easier to understand what is really going on in Xin Jiang. Xin Jiang happens to be a place where both poverty and radicalism are intermingled, so their approach could be different than say, Gui Zhou province (where it's mostly poverty). But this year I've read so much from CCTV (CCP's media) that they lifted people from poverty by giving them "a means of living".

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