Definitely not be a software engineer. No one told me how incredibly low the social status is.
EDIT: I guess it was suspicious that 99% of my high school circle picked law or finance or business courses instead.
EDIT: I guess it was suspicious that 99% of my high school circle picked law or finance or business courses instead.
It's a self inflicted mental suffering that people bring on themselves. Instead of enjoying that high wealth they fume about why they aren't as impressive as fancy lawyers, ceos, politicians and doctors...
We're arguing about status here, so when you're satisfied with the money but not with the status.
Also, I think a major elephant in the room: some people just feel better about themselves and sleep better, knowing that they are a big dog and can feel justified in looking down on others.
“You know, I should say up front that, in my experience, doctors tend to be assholes. The reason they tend to be assholes is because they get to be. They're doctors.”
It is reasonable to infer that these additional dates are actually interested in dating your job, and your essential self and body are just along for the ride. Your job goes, you go.
The problem is you will forget this at some point and start thinking a particular date actually cares about you personally.
Do yourself a favor to save your future self some pain. Take your CV, in paper form, roll it up into a cylinder, and dip it into latex. You should have a latex wand of about 8 inches in length. Wrap it with a few hundred dollar bills, gift this to your date and run away as fast as your feet will take you. You’re welcome...you’ve just saved yourself 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars and many hours of misery.
Details may vary depending on gender, economic status and the local currency.
However, there are crappy doctors and architects - just like there are famous software engineers. Prestige - outside the ingroup - is a function of the accessibility, value, and quality of your work. Like the Taiwanese folks who built a mask availability tracker...
I swear, I’d never think to ask this of anyone, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, cops, literally, I can’t think of one profession that gets asked this, I’ll try again, pilots, chemists, diplomats, translators, artists, mechanics, it’s endless.
What is it that you actually do?
How about fuck you, I’m not answering that anymore.
It tickles people the wrong way that you took software development into every possible industry you can imagine and not only started offering tech solutions, but business solutions too.
Incoming projection - I see it as the most passive aggressive low ball attack on one’s profession. It’s karma too, because we do the same to sales/product/people management elements within our industry. I know why I’ve done it, and it’s mostly insecurity, ‘oh those people aren’t smart, will soon be gone’.
^ Now imagine the whole of society looking at you like that.
In my experience, most people (i.e. sans pathologies) ask this question because they are ignorant and curious.
They are trying to integrate the unknown (you and your craft) into the known, not trying to challenge your ego.
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A story that might be illustrative.
A close relative of mine came to his current country from another country, but is a citizen of his new country. At social gatherings over the years, a not-uncommon question, asked by immigrants and born-citizens alike, was "Where are you from?"
There was no quicker way to become his mortal enemy, and to ruin a party!
He thought people were trying to parade his otherness, with the intent of making him feel out of place, not welcome, lesser-than, etc.
From another perspective, each question was an opportunity to educate people on his heritage, and an objectively-fascinating component of his identity (that of "The Immigrant").
I think it’s what afflicted my relative, too, for what it’s worth. When you’re stung by people, it’s hard to see the value in continuing to remain open.
Regarding the accrual of knowledge and its hardening effects on the soul:
> with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.
> The wise have eyes in their heads, while the fool walks in the darkness; but the same fate overtakes them both.
These quotes come from Ecclesiastes, which does not contain a much of a resolution.
> A person can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in their own toil.
Tao Te Ching makes a similar recommendation: empty hearts and fill bellies. In short, worry less of ideas, and more of literal substances that bind us together (food, drink, and toil).
Now that I think of it, IT people and mechanics suffer from the exact same stereotype where people don't trust anything they say and assume they're just lording their knowledge over the poor, uninformed user for status/money.
I'm sure the others also suffer from stereotypes.
Depends on where you work too. Sounds like you may need a new job.
It is true though that its easier to climb the ladder via social/soft/people skills and selling/positioning yourself well and knowing who to associate with etc. compared to working real hard on technical stuff. If you want to impress general people, tell them about people related achievements, like how you led a big group to success, or how you resolved conflicts, big names you've worked with and know etc. Social capital is indeed more valuable in general and so managers and "soft" professionals like lawyers can seem higher status. But its more about the focus on people vs things. Rule of thumb: if you can be objectively wrong or make an objective mistake, you're on the lower end of status. If situations are more wishy washy and rhetoric can save you, you are higher up.
Even though formulating it bluntly is frowned upon: as a software engineer you dominate (rule over) computers and equipment (similar to blue collar work), but to get respect from non techies you need to dominate people. No way around it. That's why managers like to have many reports, even if they are useless and hurt the bottom line.
I do think about my literal social status (i.e. friends, sex, etc.) but I don't think thought along those lines has ever really influenced my decision making - beyond a vague desire to outdo people born better than me.
Counter anecdote: I know law and finance and business folks who wished they studied more computers.
Better jobs are competed for strongly. Good stuff is never free and never available by default.
The pretty good stuff is often in short supply.
But it's misleading. Friendships and relationships aren't "free" in terms of effort and achievement. They take the same kind of work/luck/genetics/network combination as getting an interesting and fulfilling job does.
Sure, even the hobo on the street can have faith in Jesus and mental peace for free if you mean that sort of thing, but most things people want are scarce or at least aren't available by default, without either effort or connections.
I'd recommend talking with your friends, and asking them if they find their work fulfilling. If it falls short of their expectations, ask which dimensions contribute the most to the diff.
This might give you some perspective on what life would be like in another vertical. It probably isn't as rosy as you imagine, but you might have done this already.
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I would recommend to younger people, that they shouldn't make their career choice through the lens of prestige, because time has demonstrated that social standing is flimsy and unpredictable.
A profession's relative prestige varies regionally, temporally, socioeconomically, and in the eye of the beholder. These are mutable dimensions for the duration of a normal career.
It's kind of like the old advice: if you're interested in marrying someone for life, don't marry based on one dimension alone (looks, money, health, personality, family). Any of these can invert completely.
In finance terms, it's like betting your financial portfoilo on the 40-year performance of a single ETF: not outright stupid because some people will be successful, but it's not super wise.
If this doesn't help you feel better, maybe you should consider changing careers? As a SWE, you have enough intellectual capital, time and domain-specific education is the only thing standing in your way.
Half my friends are doing service jobs or gig work.
I can invest in my best friends studio , planing on seeing another friend in Asia next year, can take multiple international vacations per year.
I have no credit card debt.
All from wanting to learn a bit of Unity once upon a time. You can't compare yourself to the top 5% of income earners while ignoring the bottom 95%
If it makes them feel better I have to teach the 99% of their high school they are talking about and they all seem pretty one track minded.
I find this take really interesting, because my (and my peers') experience so far has been very different.
I work at a FAANG and the people that I work with aren't terribly different social status from the ones I worked with during my first internship, they're just ~20 years younger.
500 at Goldman is like VP with some tenure, which would be similar to E6 at Facebook
Hell Goldman sales and trading managing directors make 750-900k a year, which is what a good E7 at Facebook makes, both usually reached by age 33-35 by high achievers.
If you actually think lawyer is a high status job then youre watching too many movies.