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Comment by djmobley | Hacker News Reader

Regain what freedoms, exactly?

The freedom to be undercut in the labour market and priced out of the housing market by uncontrolled immigration from other EU countries?

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Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? Undercutting by other European nations? The GDP per capita of the EU (37k€) is barely below the GDP per capita of the UK ($44k). Even the typical "boogeyman" countries like Poland have a GDP per capita of $33k. The UK also has a massive "geographic advantage" when it comes to avoiding refugees. The vast majority of refugees do not arrive in the UK first which means the UK can often send them back to Italy or Greece. Seriously, this is just a textbook example of places with little immigration having more xenophobia simply because of lack of experience. People are scared of the unknown and that's all there is.

If I was worried about economic undercutting I would be worried about China and other Asian countries because they not only have the advantage in numbers, China is nowadays the go to place for manufacturing even for high quality products. The key aspect is that the quality control is managed by first world economies. For some reason the Chinese are really terrible at creating medium/premium quality brands.

You’re using PPP-adjusted figures which distort the picture. The latest wave of migration to the UK has been from Romania, not Poland.

I’m not talking about refugees, I’m talking about economic migrants, both skilled and unskilled.

In any event, please could you explain to me how adding approx. 3.5m EU nationals to the UK benefits young people?

Consider the challenges faced by young people in the UK today, including widespread unemployment and underemployment, and a chronic housing shortage where the supply of housing is virtually fixed.

There are plenty of brownfields in England. The housing supply can be grown at will. If it isn't, it's because large (English) landowners and other (English) landlords are effectively controlling the English Parliament - like it's always been since its formation, really, bar a short interlude after WWII.

Of course, how could I forget the brownfield sites.

I’ll let all the young people know there isn’t a housing crisis after all, and seeing as the millions of EU nationals residing in the UK don’t need housing, young people needn’t worry.

The housing crisis has nothing to do with us EU nationals, and all to do with your goddamn English Parliament we cannot even vote for.

It’s good to know EU nationals don’t need housing, so the millions residing in the UK aren’t adding any pressure whatsoever to our existing housing crisis.

Not any more than in any EU country, no.

And yes, the fact that a lot of voters don't really know what's going on (or suffer from cognitive dissonance, fostered by the terrible English tabloid press) is a large part of what's going on.

But I'm sure things will improve dramatically from 1 January... /s

The UK has council taxes (poll taxes) instead of property taxes paid by landowners. Landowners benefit from the increase in values; renters don't.

Your council tax system basically seems batshit crazy to people from anywhere else. I am guessing that there's some serious history behind how the UK arrived at this point.

The UK housing crisis is a complex issue with several driving factors.

My point in this thread is that uncontrolled migration from the EU has not helped the matter.

It is a real, tangible example of how EU membership has harmed the prospects of young people in the UK.

I recognize this, but I suppose there are many young people in the UK who viewed the entire EU as where their prospects and lives would lie. That is no longer true, unfortunately.

> underemployment

I'm sure that without large quantities of foreign workers willing to do the most menial jobs specifically this situation will immediately improve. /s

If young people in the UK genuinely didn’t want to do “menial” jobs, employers would either increase the pay until they filled the roles, or invest in the more highly skilled labour necessary to render those roles redundant.

I should point out I’m talking about both skilled and unskilled labour here.

British university graduates don’t stand a chance when they’re undercut by French, Spanish or Italian professionals with a decade of professional experience willing to work for peanuts.

Even that’s changing. For example, DJI produces very nice and polished products.

I'm a bit curious about how you're being undercut in the labor market and simultaneously being priced out of the housing market. You seem to be implying that uncontrolled immigrants are earning less money, but buying more expensive homes.

EU nationals come to the UK, and they participate in both the labour and housing markets.

A small number act to stimulate supply in those markets (e.g. entrepreneurs setting up businesses, or construction workers building the pitiful number of new homes that get built each year), but the vast majority simply add to the demand-side, driving down wages and increasing rents and property prices.

This applies to both skilled and unskilled migrants. The former often come with savings and significant professional experience. Great for businesses, rubbish for our young people.

Well it's nice you aren't just blaming the poor immigrants but the rich ones also. Very egalitarian.

Neither of which are the main sources of our problems.

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