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Comment by Mmrnmhrm | Hacker News Reader

I can relate. I just read this at 3am while trying to stop wondering what to do with my life. I had the childhood dream of being a professor, and after a short stint in industry, when someone gave me the chance to do a PhD I took it. Life got in the way and got my PhD at 36 years old. Nobody guided me, and did not optimize my publication schedule, so it is impossible to land a job in academia. Now I am postdoc 39, non hirable bc I'm old and my cv compares badly to anyone elses. No clue how to provide for my family.

Last month we helped clean the room of a colleague after he "passed away" after 10 years of post doc.

Another colleague got a job at 36 as a bare programmer after a very successful PhD where he wrote books and was invited to conferences. At 40 he rage quit this job after a bout of frustration and we haven't heard from him since.

Luckily they didn't have kids. Wouldn't I have kids I would definitely follow their path.

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I can understand it too - I finished my PhD with 34. In the end, I could have seen it coming: my supervisor had 0 interest in supervising, so it took a huge mental strain on me.

I've also had immense luck - I've been a computer nerd for a very long time and I was programming a lot in my field (neuroscience). So all it took was a word from one guy I knew at a big software company and I was hired. I also have to say, that a PhD, or better said, a Dr. in my country still means something, especially if you have customer contact.

But I've seen things... bright people in their 40s who have to drop out in their 40s to be hired as a labor assistent at pharma. Associate professors who would run out of money and that's the end of the career. Doing a PhD was easily the dumbest and most risky decision of my life and I was extremely lucky to get away with only some mental scars. The only positive things I can think is the friendship with other PhD students (because you went through hell together!) and the confidence in my abitity to process and dissect huge piles of information. In the end, the latter is sole reason companies are willing to give you a shot. Dont undervalue it and sell it accordingly. If you have a PhD you most likely are very persistant and very capable of self-learning.

I'm curious, what advice would you give to a person that is in that position you were when the opportunity of PhD was given? (and have a childhood dream of being a professor)

I met one person at my Master's degree lab who went on to PhD, he said his childhood dream was to be a professor (and his father was a professor). I also have a father that is a professor (and have been very curious about PhD - although that window is getting narrower as I'm getting closer to 30:s) but he have multiple times told me that "it's not worth it", "it's a waste of time, the opportunity cost lost is too high", yet in my field I often see job post that requires a PhD, so I get mixed signals.

Doing a PhD is definitely not the same thing as becoming an academic. If anything, the PhD is a direct career boost: it's a recognised, high-level qualification that is known the world over (and, incidentally, if you go outside the US, you can probably get it done an awful lot quicker...). If you love the subject -- and you have to love the subject -- do it. It's like being paid to play.

Going from PhD to Prof though, is a difficult, unlikely path of awkward postings: for every 100 PhDs expect ~1 successful academic. Oh, and once you are a professor, expect a salary....less than that you'd get in a starting job straight out of your PhD.

Thank you for the reply :) I'll add it to my note of "pros/cons & advice to take in to account before important decision" that I've started to log after my repeated mistakes..!

> I'm curious, what advice would you give to a person that is in that position you were when the opportunity of PhD was given? (and have a childhood dream of being a professor)

Bluntly, if your goal is to become a professor, don't. With 99.99% certainty, you will not become a professor and the opportunity cost is extremely high.

Almost nobody with a PhD who dreams of being a professor ever actually gets to be. Most quit or only ever become adjuncts, and, in the US at least, adjuncts earn less than minimum wage and get zero respect from anyone. Most likely you will be abused by institution after institution who will keep telling you how important your dream is while stringing you along and paying you next to nothing. Or you will quit. Or you will have a mental breakdown.

If you can see yourself being happy doing literally anything else, do literally anything else. If you can't see yourself being happy doing literally anything else, spend some more time thinking about it.

If you're independently wealthy and don't really need to succeed at the goal to live a happy life of luxury, then definitely go for it.

Seems like the general consensus is that PhD might not be a waste of time, but whatever path afterwards in Academia might be. Thanks for the feedback!

>Another colleague got a job at 36 as a bare programmer after a very successful PhD where he wrote books and was invited to conferences.

I can relate, as this basically describes me - though I've been lucky enough to find bare programing jobs that I quite like doing.

One of the toughest things about leaving academia is discovering that (i) no-one who doesn't have a PhD has any clue what a PhD is and (ii) everyone who has a PhD has a healthy disregard for the intellectual capacities of their fellow doctors.

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