Hacker News Reader

Comment by belltaco | Hacker News Reader

People said the same thing about Apple, and watched while it eventually decimated Nokia, Blackberry etc. Both Tesla and Apple have that premium brand reputation, and older brands are perceived as legacy. Doesn't mean that the car brands will fall to a similar fate, but they have an uphill battle to fight and need to pull a rabbit out of their hats.

View on HN

> they have an uphill battle to fight and need to pull a rabbit out of their hats

The Renault Zoe is the best selling electric car in Europe in 2020.

It's not like car manufacturers are standing still. They'll be pumping out electric cars year after year. When there's so much choice of EV, what's the reason to choose a Tesla? Europe is choosing the Zoe ahead of all other models right now.

Not all major car makers will fall into the "legacy/old and busted" category - I think the ones with a long-time reputation for quality/dependability will be able to make a strong splash in the EV market once they've got a comparable product.

For example, if Honda or Toyota makes any of their mainline models with the simplified/basic interior but just with a well-made EV drivetrain compatible with the Tesla charger network, I'm probably buying instantly.

If you look at Norway where EV's account for close to 50% of new car sales you'll find that Tesla is not outselling anyone. Most sold EV this year was the Audi e-tron, followed by VW e-golf. Tesla M3 on 5th place. Tesla has the best range, but it's not that far ahead of the competition and it is generally more expensive than the competition.

Tesla still has a 10% tariff there, which is fairly significant.

Source? AFAIK EV's are exempt from all tax. If there is a 10% tariff, then it must be the same for all other manufacturers as well. Anyway, my point was that in a mature EV market Tesla is not the only player.

Yeah, I'm totally wrong. I had assumed the EU tariffs were shared by other nations in the EEA, but it's not true from what I can see. Importing an EU vehicle and US vehicle are the same (except for shipping costs).

Although EU nations, until GF Berlin, aren't quite apples to apples in that regard. But my understanding is that they did final assembly of the S and X in Europe to avoid the tariff, it's only the 3 that suffers.

The issue will be battery supply chain. It’s the new ice engine in the supply chain

But being a "premium" or lifestyle brand is a lot less useful if you're competing in the insurance or utility markets.

Is Tesla considered a premium brand? Most of the cars they currently sell are pretty basic.

They're pretty basic in terms of finish and equipment, but premium in terms of price.

The most sold cars in Europe are models that start around 15~20k€. The cheapest Tesla starts at 51k€; that's about 3 times the price. Even if you only look at electric cars, the best selling one is the Zoe which starts at about half the price of the cheapest Tesla.

Yes, or at least they are a fashion statement to many. They aren't all that premium on paper

So they are the Prius of recent years?

In Europe Tesla's are much more expensive relative to their competition compared to the US.

Premium refers to the price.

As far as I understand Nokia was doing fine and was even ready to launch its own smartphone OS before it got subverted by a Microsoft manager that brought Windows Mobile and killed any chance it had to compete.

> Both Tesla and Apple have that premium brand reputation, and older brands are perceived as legacy.

In other words: overpriced crap vs. tried and tested.

That's a bit of a generous assessment. They had an OS that was launched on one premium phone, well behind iOS, Android and Windows phone. A company like Nokia would struggle to turn their Symbian dumb phone market share into something that could win against Android.

> They had an OS that was launched on one premium phone, well behind iOS, Android and Windows phone.

Nokia had Maemo since 2005 and tried to move to MeeGo in 2010. IOS was 2007, Android happened 2008 and Microsoft had almost no success with Windows Mobile, only launching Windows Phone near the end of 2010. Weird definition of well behind.

You're right. I completely messed up the timings in my memory.

That said, Windows Phone was widely available in 2010. Whereas Nokia hadn't widely rolled out either Maemo or MeeGo.

The board hired him specifically to try and sell the company to Microsoft.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com