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Comment by gravypod | Hacker News Reader

If this separates Oculus into it's own company I'd probably buy one of the new headsets. The things Facebook is doing here definitely detracts from the product. I don't have to give Logitech my drivers license to plug in a mouse.

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> I don't have to give Logitech my drivers license to plug in a mouse

Reminds me of how Nvidia's Geforce Experience application requires you to create an account with them just for the convenience of auto-updating your graphics card driver. This "experience" sure doesn't feel right to me, so I update those drivers manually.

Companies are really trying everything they can think of to get more of your information, even if it's just an email address.

This is particularly funny when you consider that Windows Update will automatically update your graphics drivers once they go through WHQL. Manually installing drivers from Nvidia's website is actually a user experience downgrade, since Windows Update won't touch graphics drivers you pull in yourself.

For the record: I ended up biting the bullet with Geforce Experience regardless, because of the other features they had on offer that were tied to the app. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I ultimately dropped Nvidia cards entirely for AMD. Switching to AMD in turn made dropping Windows easier! (arch user btw)

It's extra hilarious since Geforce Experience is an electron app you can just path out the login window yourself and be on your way :) https://github.com/Moyster/BaiGfe

What? That's awesome. I don't really care that much about having an account but the Geforce Experience app requires me to re-login every few months and I always have trouble remembering the password. It's just a hassle all the time.

To be fair, we do that with all software, it's just one bit harder.

The drivers from Windows Update are absurdly out of date. If you play recent games you'll have serious bugs and performance regressions.

Windows update failed to get the newest Nvidia drivers that were pushed out ahead of Cyberpunk 2077. I had to manually download them to get the game to stop crashing.

I really despise that you need to login for it, especially as it used to be optional. I wanted to try remote play on a psvita[1] but did not want to so someone has made a thing to let you use geforce experience without a login[2] and i found it worked reasonably well.

[1] https://github.com/xyzz/vita-moonlight [2] https://github.com/Moyster/BaiGfe

and geforce experience never remembers my login.

THIS - I have 4 computers with NVIDIA graphics cards and am constantly ask to re-authenticate.

In the console-vs-PC debate about gaming, this is a solid point in favor of consoles.

Same for me. I was waffling between getting my family a Valve Index vs. Quest 2 for Christmas. The mandatory Facebook tie-in cinched my decision.

that's an apple/onion comparison ...

What do you mean?

I think he's referring to the fact that Index must be tied to a PC and Quest is standalone, and probably also that they use different app ecosystems.

Also $1000 vs $300 heh

Well, they are very different devices. The Quest is currently a one of a kind device when it comes to ease of use and setup. (Which makes it doubly annoying to me the Facebbok tie in. I adored the Quest one but I sent it back for a refund due to Facebook's ridiculous decision not to allow multiple user accounts. A device which I'm not using 95% of my time cannot easily be shared with other family members?! Utter madness. /rant)

username checks out </reddit>

Same here, but my guess is that oculus as its own company is not profitable. So the choice is likely between this and no oculus.

Lots of companies are not profitable in the beginning, that's not a problem for many investors.

Tell that to Magic Leap. Private investors don't have 5-10 year horizons for plowing money into R&D to eventually see if it gets somewhere. This is a multi-billion dollar yearly capital commitment

Same here. I was tempted to buy one until I read about the guy who’s device is useless as Facebook banned him.

I mean try using a smartphone with a banned apple or google account. A PS5 is a brick if sony bans your account. This is standard industry practice

All of which need to be illegal years ago. France is streets ahead here.

Pointing to other shit companies that are known for anti'consumer practices doesn't help your argument.

First, it is not at all standard industry practice, because only the largest players can get away with it.

Second, what is "standard industry practice" is exactly how ethical we force corporations to be.

FB, as a mindless corporation has it built into its very being to be unable to consider ethics and optimize profits on the edge of legality.

However, what the hell is your excuse, trying to normalise such behaviour as "standard industry practice" ??

Oculus couldn't survive by itself. It's possible that Microsoft, Samsung, Apple or someone else would purchase them, but I believe that with Oculus the best possible outcome is for them to role back anti-consumer (required FB login and especially all the policies that come with that) and anti-developer (actually blocking apps they believe compete with them) practices

> Oculus couldn't survive by itself.

Do we know how expensive it is to maintain and how much it earns? It probably spends more than the PSVR division at Sony or the Vive division at HTC, but the Quest is quite popular and, if reviews are anything to go by, very close to making VR "mainstream". I'm not convinced it couldn't survive off investor money for a while until it becomes profitable. Silicon Valley is no stranger to unprofitable companies living off investments for years and years after all.

I could see Epic purchasing Oculus, I would be more likely to get that then with Oculus through facebook.

Plus, if they put some form of VR integration into Fortnite that could seriously drive adoption.

Epic and most other companies don’t have the kind of money to fund Oculus

I think people don’t appreciate that there is about 5000 engineers working on Oculus at FB. Then add all the supporting functions...it’s easily 7-8k

The number of engineers working on a product is not the same as the number of engineers needed to build a product.

Exactly. A friend who worked at Oculus said they had the most over the top tricked out work stations and he was just doing testing.

Epic games had EBITDA of a billion dollars this year. They could afford quite a bit if they wanted to go that direction.

That wouldn't even cover a year of Oculus' operations.

Oculus is not just a display, but a computer with a GUI and an app store, so it's more like having to log in to Apple to use an iPad. Not sure you really have to log in if you don't use the Oculus app store.

The difference is that Apple, and Microsoft for that matter, don't give a shit about knowing who I am. They may want data here and there (moreso microsoft), but if you want to give them a fake email address and a fake name, you can march ahead with your device just fine.

Facebook wants to stick it's eyeball tendrils up my butt before they deign to allow me to use hardware I purchased from them.

This. The only "big tech" company that's ever asked for official identification (out of the blue, wouldn't let me login otherwise) has been Facebook. Going back to the original comment:

> I don't have to give Logitech my drivers license to plug in a mouse.

This sounds like hyperbole but it's a very real comparison.

You can use an iPad without an Apple ID, it’s just pretty hidden: https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/use-iphone-without-apple-i... at least as of last year.

This goes over the setup process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkivmMKikU

You must have a Facebook account to get past the setup screen. Even if you just want to use the headset as an input device and a display.

Agree. If Oculus had the best headset for my needs, I would buy a non-Facebook one too.

The separate company could still sell Facebook all your data though, right?

How else are they going to make money? And I'm not sure that there's much valuable data from Oculus usage to be sold and repackaged to advertisers through facebook

Yeah but couldn’t they just have some information sharing agreement that would obviate the separation?

Same here. As well as for family members.

Not going to happen.

Better to get the Valve Index.

Hate to echo but...same!

Yes!

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