Hacker News Reader

Comment by CraigJPerry | Hacker News Reader

> I don't see a feedback loop that makes it hard to escape poverty

Really?

You’re 16 years old, you’ve a high IQ and a passion for programming.

Your parents are alcoholics. You don’t have nice clothes. You don’t have perfect manners because it’s just not the world you live in.

How do you get to the university admissions interview in the next town? How will you compete against the mannerly, well turned out student with no record of truancy. All you have is a high IQ and a passion. Will that cut it?

> incentives

Actors are sometimes irrational, you can’t rely on incentives.

View on HN

Bill Gates has openly admitted how much his environment helped. Being genetically gifted as he is is only part of the equation. He also grew up in an affluent enough area to have early to computers as well as the time and supportive environment to pursue it. I wonder if people who claim environment doesnt matter have spent any appreciable time in poor neighborhoods.

The absolute best will usually find their way out. I think a society should optimize for beyond those who are just in the vanishing tail of the curve

> Bill Gates has openly admitted how much his environment helped. Being genetically gifted as he is is only part of the equation. He also grew up in an affluent enough area to have early to computers as well as the time and supportive environment to pursue it.

Not to mention the role his familial connections had in his landing that sweetheart deal with IBM.

For the unaware, his mom was an acquaintance of the IBM CEO by virtue of both serving on the board of United Way, and Microsoft came up in conversation between them. A few weeks later IBM contracted Microsoft to write the operating system for the first IBM "personal computer".

He also promised to deliver the operating system within an insane deadline. He did so by by purchasing 86-DOS [0] (also known as QDOS) for $50k ($148,931.42 today) and porting it over to IBM PCs.

He got business connections with IBM, he is a skilled negotiator, he got an expensive education paid by his parents, founded his own business with his parent's money (do you have a $150k allowance?) and knew intelligent but "poor" people who were even more skilled than him who he then could hire to actually do the important work.

In short, he was born a billionaire.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS

aka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_running

These days, you can start a successful internet business in your basement with just a computer. Nobody has to see you, your clothes, or your bad manners. You don't need a university education, though you can get one for free online as needed.

How the hell are you supposed to learn to code when you’re working 50 hours per week just to make rent and eat? How can you afford to deploy? And how can you market your product if you don’t know how to talk to your audience?

Sure, you will be able to point to many people who have managed to do it. But many, many others have tried and failed - through no fault of their own.

> you’re working 50 hours per week just to make rent and eat

The parent I replied to says you're 16. You're not working 50 hours etc.

I mean, sure. I grew up poor and without much in the way of access to education, and the internet was really a saving grace for me, in terms of self-education, income, and simply finding community.

At the same time, do you think the average income of a given internet business--let alone the segment that are run by solo entrepreneurs in their basement with just a computer and a $5 droplet--compares positively to the salary of the average CS graduate? Because we're talking about inequality, not asking "can poor people possibly make money online?"

The fact that the internet has made things better does not mean the problem is solved.

I happen to know several people who did just that (grew up barely above what would qualify for welfare, did not go to college) and became millionaires.

Even if you fail (and you probably will) what you learn from it will position you much better when trying again. It often takes multiple failures before making it work. (Even Gates/Allen had business failures before starting Microsoft.)

> does not mean the problem is solved.

Most people don't recognize opportunity because it comes disguised as hard work :-)

On average, the internet probably made thing worse to the average employee. Everything became much more competitive and automated.

No, starting a business takes capital. You can build a Django website from your basement for free, but to turn it into a profitable business takes cash.

It does? A $5/mo droplet can serve a good amount of traffic. And there are lots of free ways to get some initial users, they just take time. I know because I’ve done exactly that.

This kind of can’t-do attitude really saddens me. I see it all the time in these discussions about wealth inequality.

I know. I've set up websites before; I am aware that it doesn't take that much money to get it running.

But what about advertising? Branding? Anything that a $5 droplet can do, someone else's product can probably do too -- you don't have the tech advantage. Do you stand out with UX? By doing the legwork yourself? All of these take manpower, and that means capital.

It's not the website that costs money to make; it's making that website profitable.

Yeah, if you don’t have any resources, you do everything yourself. Paid advertising can be useful for scaling, but you don’t need it for getting the first few users, and usually you’re shooting for being good enough to get word of mouth spread.

I think you may have a few competitive advantages that a 16 year old may lack, like a quiet place to work, an internet connection, a network of people, etc. etc. You’ve got such an advantage that it’s utterly pointless to draw comparisons.

The idea that someone somewhere can probably maybe might be able to make this work does not make the case that people have opportunity.

We were talking about needing startup capital to get the business off the ground, so this is kind of moving the goalposts.

But if you have a library nearby, that can take care of a lot of the concerns you’re talking about. Before the pandemic, I frequently worked out of one. Your hypothetical 16 year old likely has a suitable spot at their school.

You really don’t need an existing network to get a business started. You can find initial users on Internet forums, or reach out to people on LinkedIn.

If that’s true, why is it so rare? Why is this secret undiscovered?

What is “it” referring to? Bootstrapping a small business?

There are quite a lot of successful small saas startups that took no funding. Are you familiar with microconf? The business of software conference?

It might seem rare if you don’t know anybody doing it, the knowledge isn’t evenly distributed. Doesn’t mean it is rare.

It's not rare at all.

Freelance programming doesn't require any more capital than owning a computer. Anyone can start by contributing to open source projects.

That's not "starting a business," that's just finding work.

It's a business in every way (be sure to register it with the government as a business). You can turn it into leverage by finding gigs for your programming friends, handling the negotiation, billing, and payment and thereby collecting a percentage. In fact, you can become quite wealthy doing this.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com