Hacker News Reader

Comment by keenmaster | Hacker News Reader

Just in case people see the misleading "ikigai" Venn diagram https://medium.com/@support_35468/ikigai-is-not-a-venn-diagr...

View on HN

Great description there. 'in the realm of small things'. Reminds me of this Jung quote:

"makes me think of the rabbi who asked how it could be that God often showed himself to people in the olden days whereas nowadays nobody ever sees him. The rabbi replied: "Nowadays there is no longer anybody who can bow low enough."

Thanks for sharing. This post makes a lot of sense, and I think it jives more closely with the original (How to Escape the Modern Rat Race) post when it comes to finding meaning or purpose in life.

Regardless of whether or not it accurately explains the term’s origin or true meaning, the Venn diagram seems to present the more compelling idea.

That really depends on what perspective you are coming from. For the Hacker News set? Yeah, okay.

I disagree. The Venn diagram version positions satisfaction as contingent on things you cannot possibly control ("That Which the World Needs" and "That Which You Can be Paid For"). This is a recipe for perpetual unhappiness and dissatisfaction for most.

I agree that it's best to choose values that are within your control. Once you choose intrinsic values, you'll generally find that you need to make money to best align your actions with your values.

The question, then, is how do you balance: 1) making enough money for food and shelter with 2) your intrinsic values? Also, will making more than enough money help you further achieve your values?

The diagram presents a framework to find an optimal solution. "That which you love" is a function of your intrinsic values. The other 3 circles will help you efficiently convert your time into money to support what you love. I guess the better diagram would somehow convey the fact that, ultimately, what really matters is that which you love.

Not only that, Do you want for someone to "deeply care about something"? pay them a lot to work on that.That's it.We are masters on deluding ourselves with post-hoc rationalizations.

What you can control is what you do for a living. You can find jobs that are in the middle of that diagram. You can do multiple things that combine to make the middle of that diagram and so on.

Saying it's outside of your control isn't entirely true. However, I do get not everyone can get to the center of that diagram; for some people it is within their control and for some it is not. To blindly dismiss it as a lack of control is a form of learned helplessness, however small, which for many is a root that creates depression. If you're depressed, this may be something you want to talk to a therapist about.

But the venn diagram is a completely different concept and doesn't relate to the original meaning of ikigai. I think it should just get a different name since it is NOT the same thing.

Ikigai seems to be embodied in the "iyashi-kei", "slice-of-life" genre of Japanese manga and anime. From older titles like Azumanga and YKK (Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou), to Aria / Aqua, K-On, and even series with a bit more activity like the wonderful Mushishi (recommended to anyone without exception).

Oh geez. I did mean the venn diagram + more.

The venn diagram has helped me. I'm lucky to be blessed to be in the center of it. In my experience, the venn diagram is correct. It represents what I've gone through quite well.

Haha, "Ikigai is not a Venn Diagram" and ironically, neither is any diagram depicted in the article (though it is worth pointing out that, as per the article, they were not created by the author).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com