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Comment by mongol | Hacker News Reader

This goal was incredible, but with many years passed, it has faded in significance for me. Not sure why, if it is because the game has evolved, or I have seen many other great goals, or something else. But probably because I think the defense was too passive. This goal would not be done today, most probably.

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It's more than the play itself. It's the context. A world cup game (on of the best in recent decades at that), an Argentina x England after a war which precipitated massive change in Argentina, the whole atmosphere around that match. Then the hand of god, then that goal. It will be a legend remembered for centuries to come, in the memory and folklore of Argentinians especially, and of football lovers everywhere.

The reality is: England only remembers the first goal. Argentina the second. And the rest of the world doesn't give a damn.

I cheers my Heineken to you, good sir.

Centuries? Let's not kid ourselves.

Lionel Messi, same goal, 2004 (or thereabouts) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAehMNYw0ig

> same goal

Scoring against Getafe is not comparable to scoring against England in a world cup, specially when it is Argentina against England (in a game England invented) only a few years against the Falklands war. It's a great goal by Messi, but Maradona's goal has a place in history books.

Getafe today is better than Getafe 2004, for those of you wondering.

> Falklands war.

It seems the intersection of football and politics makes for outstanding games. Cometh the hour, cometh the man

> (in a game England invented)

It seems that soccer was invented in China, not in England. [0]

[0]: https://www.athleticscholarships.net/history-of-soccer-footb...

Did you read the link you posted?

> Records trace the history of soccer back more than 2,000 years ago to ancient China. Greece, Rome, and parts of Central America also claim to have started the sport; but it was England that transitioned soccer, or what the British and many other people around the world call “football,” into the game we know today.

In short: everyone lays claim to kicking around a ball, but England invented the modern game

When people talk about "the modern game", I think most would agree we're talking about passing to players running into a better position further up the pitch

The first rules established in England allowed no such thing. Forward passes were still not permitted (like Rugby). It was in Scotland where the offside rule that loosely resembles what it is today was actually invented, allowing players to spread themselves a bit more around the pitch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_Game#Queens_Park_F...

After a few thumping defeats, the English sides had to evolve to remain competetive.

My understanding is that kicking something about with the aim of getting it somewhere or other existed in lots of different places, independently. The modern, codified game more or less resembling what we have today was invented in England.

> The modern, codified game more or less resembling what we have today was invented in England.

Arguably Scotland but we're used to England stealing our inventions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_Game#Queens_Park_F...

And Messi also did the replica of the other goal (hand of God) against Espanyol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37HfAE1X8Y

Amazingly similar. I think it is better. Notice how the player that chases him does not slow the pace, but pushes on until he makes a failed attempt to break the play. Speed seems faster too. A good illustration of evolution of the game. Of course, we don't know if Maradona would still have scored with more effort from the English defense, maybe he would. In any case, two great goals.

One was against Getafe in almost-meaningless copa del rey game, the other was against England in a Quarter final game in the WC. Night and day.

And 4 years after a war were we lost a bunch of kids lives. That day he became a legend to Argentina.

Of course, but I didnt want to open that magic lamp of politics

I think he is comparing the technical difficulty of a goal, not the context when it was scored.

I dont know if you have played football or are a fan, but the context is a great part of the difficulty of a goal, not only were his opponents better the stakes were sky-high. Players who regularly score in a normal game freeze when the do-or-die time comes. For all his brilliance Messi has never scored a goal in a decisive game in a WC, Maradona scored 4 in 2 games in 1986.

And there was that moment Messi skied a penalty kick in ... what was it, the Copa América final? He announced his retirement the day after. Of course, retracted.

That England team was unlucky not to win something. They were very good. They lost to two eventual WC winners in a row in 1986 and 1990.

They were the #1 ranked ELO team for a while in the late 1980s :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings#Lis...

Just as a note, I'm not English nor do I have English heritage and don't 'support' England.

Wish I was in a random bar in Barcelona when that happened. Always a huge pleasure to rewatch it.

I was in a random bar in Barcelona when Ronaldo scored a hat trick to come back against Wolfsburg in the CL. For a Madrid fan, it was amazingly juicy. A little old lady started dancing the flamenco to taunt a table of young lads.

Barcelona? Or Buenos Aires?

Messi is Barcelona FC player.

Messi feels 2x faster than Maradona here

True, but remember that in the 80s the rules were different and players did not hesitate to tackle opponents. Also Maradona had to be more careful against England in a World Cup match than Messi playing against Getafe.

2007

George Harrison: It's been done.

A few years afterwards, the game began speeding up. The goal is from an earlier era. Before the backpassing was outlawed. Before tactical fouls earned a yellow card. Before hacking fell out of the game. One of the remarkable features of the goal is that he avoided being pulled/pushed/kicked down by any of the defenders.

Another remarkable feature is that it happened at 2200m, in July, with 1986 air quality. Futbol in Mexico still looks different because so much of it is played at altitude...and so much of European futbol is played near sea level.

Hopefully, its most remarkable feature will never be surpassed: massive geopolitical significance in the wake of the war in the south Atlantic.

> One of the remarkable features of the goal is that he avoided being pulled/pushed/kicked down by any of the defenders

100%! The 80s was an era of defensive brutality, when horrendos tackles from behind were allowed. Tricky dribblers like Maradona were routinely hacked down. Even Emlyn Hughes said during the England vs Argentina match: "Oh, that was awful tackle by Terry Fenwick. He deserves a red car. Oh well, looks like he got away with it".

The fact it was during an eliminatory game of World Cup (that Argentina ended up winning) matters a lot to the importance and beauty of this goal. There are not many opportunities in a player life to do such a thing (unlike national league or even continental league matches)

That is certainly true. But there is a World cup every four years and in most cups in the past, let's say, 20 years, there is an eliminatory game with an equally great or greater goal. I think this goal has become legendary because of:

- Maradona's dominance as a player throughout the -86 cup - The Falkland Islands war just a few years prior giving this game a special tension and attention - It's beauty relative other goals at the time

My comment is just a reflection to often heard comments about it being the greatest goal ever. Judging it just by what the clip shows, it has faded for me. But the historical context is important.

> ” in most cups in the past, let's say, 20 years, there is an eliminatory game with an equally great or greater goal”

What? I honestly can’t remember of a single one. Which goals are you thinking of?

The defense is not passive but the football field was very soft and it's hard to run around to play football on it. This is according to Gary Lineker, England forward who was playing in the tournament. The bad condition favours Maradona who's accustomed to play in bad field condition.

Camerawork has certainly improved since then

camera resolution has improved even more since then

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