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Comment by justapassenger | Hacker News Reader

By tipping at large scale customers are showing support to the business model. If you worry about future that model is setting, last thing you want to do, is to ask others to help support that model.

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If you use the service, you need to tip, otherwise the workers are screwed. If you don’t support the model, don’t use the service. Don’t be an accelerationist; real people get hurt in its intermediate phases.

If the workers are screwed, they will stop working for doordash, increasing the costs to doordash and therefore speeding up their demise.

By tipping you are directly subsidizing doordash

> If the workers are screwed, they will stop working for doordash, increasing the costs to doordash and therefore speeding up their demise

Not if they can't find other work (like now where un-employment is high).

You or I might have to privilege to choose our next jobs but for some people especially those in the services industry don’t have that and end up having to work doordash/instacart. Don’t attack the messenger when it’s probably easier for most people to stop using doordash.

Given that we arent going to be convincing others to tip or not to tip, id argue by not tipping you are not "part of a movement trying to take down doordash" but just being cheap (if in the US where there is a culture for this)

The companies are required to pay their workers at least minimum wages if wage + tips is less than minimum wage. As far as I can tell, tipping is justified by guilt-tripping everyone by saying "the food industry doesn't pay its workers enough so it's your responsibility to make up for the difference" instead of saying "the food industry needs to pay its workers a real wage and give customers the real price". If tip is not optional, then make it not optional, but don't guilt-trip people into feeling required to do something optional.

punishing people at the poverty level for VC behavior is terrible.

yes, on a certain level you're right. it's a tough problem to fix. similar to the war refugee situation. if people feel it's very easy to flee a bad situation, then there's less of an incentive to keep your own house in order. but if people have nowhere to go, they'll invest and fight to keep their homes good places to live. see also, white flight.

How are war refugees supposed to fix the fact that they are getting bombed out of their homes, particularly in one of the most recent scenarios as part of a civil war?

If the attacking party knows

- the opponent will flee or - the opponent will fight to the death

Don't you think that would affect the attacking party's plans?

I don't think this is a distinction that matters to a government prepared to indiscriminately kill anyone, combatant or civilian, to maintain control.

I'm not sure how, but I think you've managed to find the worst possible example to rhetorically support the idea that poverty level people should be punished for VC behavior or even try and claim that it is a tough problem with moral grey area. You are going to find very very little sympathy for an argument that, if you are an unarmed civilian being killed in a genocide, then really its really your own fault for not keeping your house in order, and allowing your family to not be murdered by letting them leave would only disincentivize them from investing in their community to stop the violence somehow. Surely there is a better analogy for doordash drivers than that?

I minimize the services I use that “require” tipping, because I philosophically oppose it. Would the workers prefer I spend $0 rather than some?

I really hope you avoid using any service where tipping is the expected norm if you won't tip. Otherwise, I hope that you either grudgingly tip or simply avoid those services whether it's convenient to do so or not.

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