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Comment by culopatin | Hacker News Reader

As someone using a hackintosh considering a real Macbook, what's so wrong about it?

There are loads of rants out there that are easy to find, but personally it's mostly: you can't use it without looking at it to make sure the buttons are what you think they are (nearly always context-sensitive, often surprising when it decides it's a new context), and where you think they are (can't go by feel, so you need to visually re-calibrate constantly). Button size and positioning varies widely, and nearly all of them have a keyboard shortcut already that doesn't require hand movement or eyes (or at worst previously had an F-key that never moved).

The main exception being things like controlling a progress bar (mouse works fine for me, though it's a neat demo), or changing system brightness/volume with a flick or drag (which is the one thing I find truly better... but I'd happily trade it back for a fn toggle and F keys). But that's so rarely useful.

When I watch non-HN type people use it, they like it. They never used Fn keys in the first place.

I just hated the lack of ESC key (which they brought back, though my Mac is older). I have no muscle memory for any other key in that row.

I think the touchbar was my favorite part of my old MBP, specifically because of the contextual buttons that are always changing.

I'd probably pay a little extra to get one on future non-Mac laptops, but not too much extra.

Yeah, most people I know almost never use F keys (except perhaps F1 for help). They leave it on the media-keys mode... which is the same as the touchbar's default values, but without needing to know what mode it's in.

With the physical media keys, if they want to mute, it's always the same button. Pause music, always the same button. They're great in a way that the touchbar completely destroys.

(and yes, I know you can change this setting, but if we're assuming non-techy-users we also generally have to assume default settings.)

Honestly, I hardly ever used the function keys either. As a result the Touch Bar doesn't really bother me -- but neither does it seem the slightest bit useful for the most part.

Lot of non-hn people also type while looking at the keyboard and some with single finger from both hands.

It's just not useful. The context-aware stuff is too unpredictable, and I'm never looking at the keyboard anyway so I have never learned it. So the touchbar ends up being just a replacement for the volume and brightness keys, but a slow and non-tactile version of them

For me at least (and I'd imagine most of the other folks who hate it) - I had the key layout memorized. If I wanted to volume up/down/mute I could do it without taking my eyes off the screen. With the touchbar ANYTHING I wanted to do required me to change my focus to the touchbar - for the benefit of...?

I'm sure someone somewhere finds it amazing, but I have no time for it.

To me it's no different than volume controls in a car. I've been in a cadillac with a touchbar for volume, and a new ram truck with a volume knob - there's absolutely no room for debate in my opinion. One of these allows me to instantly change the volume 100% up or down without taking my eyes off the road. The other requires hoping I get my finger in just the right spot from muscle memory and swipe enough times since there's 0 tactile feedback.

For me it hides the things I use all the time (media and volume controls) to make room for application specific controls that I never use.

If it was more customisable I wouldn't mind it, but the apparant inability to force it to show me the things I actually want is annoying.

I can imagine there are some people for whom the application specific buttons are useful, but for me they are not worth it for what they displace.

Not sure if it's helpful for you but you can customize the behavior by going to your System Prefs > keyboard settings and toggling "Touch bar shows:".

I did this on like day 2 of having my MBP for what sounds like the same reason you want to. The setting I have turned on is "Expanded control strip" and I never see any application-specific controls, only volume, brightness, etc.

Omg, thank you. Somehow I'd missed that setting.

Check out BetterTouchTool if customization is holding you back.

FYI you can customize it, and force it to always display certain controls.

I had the exact same frustrations as you. Took me 10 mins digging into settings to figure it out. Now I have my touchbar constantly displaying all of the controls that are buttons on the Air (ie a completely over-engineered solution to get the same result)

The latency on the touch bat is terrible. Perhaps 1/2 second to update when you switch apps, for example!

It doesn't provide tactile feedback.

https://www.haptictouchbar.com/ is a great app I use, provides haptic feedback for the touch bar.

Try https://github.com/niw/HapticKey

They do such a good job on the iPhone with this that it is quite mystifying why not.

In addition to what everybody else said, because the touch at is flat and flush with the body chassis, I find it’s very easy to accidentally press when you press a key in the row below. Eg, accidentally summoning Siri when pressing backspace, muting the audio when pressing “=“. And then you’re forced to look down and find the mute “button” to fix it.

No haptic feedback, mainly. A lot better with a real escape key, but still.

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