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Comment by bnt | Hacker News Reader

And it costs an extra €224 to go from 8 to 16gb. This is ridiculously expensive.

Any option in Euros is about 30% more expensive than buying the same in the US or Hong Kong (which is pretty crummy, but possibly related to taxes and the cost of doing business in the EU).

EDIT: I don't mean VAT/sales tax, I've considered sales taxes in the comparison, but also exchange rates of $1.18/1€. The difference is almost exactly 30%. It looks like the cost of doing business in the EU is much higher, and/or Apple chooses to price their products however they want by region.

Most of the US priced don't include tax... Eu prices include vat...

I did include CA sales tax (in Los Angeles) of 9.5%, vs the VAT-inclusive price in France/Germany/Italy, and the difference _after_ including those was about 30% higher in the EU. Germany was the lowest, probably because they temp. reduced their sales tax from 19% to 16%.

I can actually get a round-trip economy flight (pre-COVID and now) to LA just to buy a Mac mini, and save about $400. It's really.. unfortunate.

It's not just sales tax, there's also import taxes no?

That's true, I'm comparing local purchase prices with currency conversion rates. The rest depends on your personal situation and tax jurisdiction.

No what I mean is that Apple pays import duties to bring the computer into the EU from its point of manufacture. This further increases the cost compared with the US or a duty-free zone like Hong Kong. 30% overall increase of price is what I would expect for import duties + VAT, so Apple isn’t overcharging here.

Oh ok, gotcha. I’m not trying to blame any entity here, just pointing out the price difference that’s larger than the sales tax difference between the EU and CA. Interestingly HK prices for iPhones are almost exactly California prices (within a couple of dollars) even though there is no sales tax in HK - that’s probably on Apple.

No import duty either. HK is considered an international transshipment zone with no tarrifs.

Pop down to Switzerland. More than USA, less than Eurozone, and 7.7% VAT.

Not for computers into Germany.

Maxed out Mac Mini is $1699 pre tax in US and €1917 in Ireland. That's €1558 pre VAT price, or $1838 including mandatory 2 year warranty.

$139 is NOT 30% difference.

1917€ would be about $2262, and $1699 pre-tax would be about $1699*1.095=$1860 with tax, or about $402 more expensive.

I'm comparing retail pricing in France (with a 2-year EU warranty) to business pricing in the US (with a 1-year warranty). That comes out to 1949€ including VAT in France, or about $2299 USD, vs $1749 USD including Los Angeles/CA sales tax with business pricing.

About 31% more.

IMHO it’s misleading to compare the gross prices due to difference tax rates. JAlexoid’s comparison is a much more honest representation of how much Apple marks up prices in Europe. I wouldn’t expect Apple - or anyone - to eat the 10% sales tax/VAT difference.

Right, but I’m not trying to determine Apple’s markups. I just want to know where to buy a new Mac for myself. I don’t care who gets the markup, Apple, the gov’t, whatever.

Since you use words like “misleading” and “honest”, I wonder what your agenda is. Maybe you’re an Apple shareholder who’s allergic to any perceived criticism.

Then your argument is with the typical EU VAT tax model, not Apple.

It's not Apple's fault, that our governments decided to tax the crap out of everything.

Don't forget VAT. I think US prices don't include taxes as it's state dependent.

It's not quite as insulting as their $800 2TB SSD.

You could get the smallest SSD (a laughable 256GB) and then add one or two external 10Gbps NVMe M.2 SSDs at very low cost and with adequate performance.

I mean if it's SLC chip, that can explain the price.

The fastest drive available today is the WD SN850: https://shop.westerndigital.com/en-us/products/internal-driv...

The consumer price for 2TB is $450. $800 is absurd.

This has always been par for the course for computer manufacturers. I used to spec out Dell PCs for the school I worked at. At the time, retail cost for a 1TB HDD was the same price as a 512GB SSD. But Dell was charging double for the SSD.

For me personally, I used to buy the lower-end models with small HDD and RAM, then upgrade them. But that's no longer an option with these machines.

Apple price is always 2x consumer price.

Also if it comes with $600 in cash stuffed inside, that would explain the price. But it's neither of those things.

It's not, although it is ridiculously fast. But most people don't need ridiculous storage performance; they just need the space.

It's not, Apple most likely use TLC 3D NAND. There's no definitive source but the only remaining SLC drives being made are enterprise (and a few at that), and I think MLC is the same by now. (Even Samsung's Pro series moved to TLC)

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