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Many folks have a hard time understanding chronic pain. I did too until I suffered from it for a period of 6 months. I injured my neck and my right arm went numb. The pain from my neck down to my finger tips was a constant 10 out of 10, 24/7, even in my sleep. There was no amount of pain killers that would help.

I freaked out my whole family telling them that if it doesn't go away I don't think I can make it. There was a point where I got an axe and asked my wife to hack my arm off at the shoulder. Miraculously, it finally healed somehow and I just remember thinking how wonderful it felt to have a second chance at life.

I understand now why people with chronic pain want to end their lives. For some poor souls it seems like the only way to get rest/peace from the constant and exhausting pain.

I often sit and wonder "why the fuck do I need to feel the pain all the time". I'll literally feel it until I die. What's the point?

If it was a machine with problems, I'd just set it to generate a report/warning once in a while and not waste energy probing the sensors every second.

Remind me once every few hours that yes, my back and knees are still fucked (doctors' advice: just live with it...oook).

I don't need it 24/7 (OK subtract a few hours when sleeping without waking up because of it), it's literally pointless.

Trial and error. I ran a constant 6-9 pain level.

Down to 1-3 most of the time. But took years of trial and error, and so many mistakes to get here.

I don't think you are supposed to live indefinitely under chronic conditions. We're so outside of design scopes.

People put way to much trust in doctors. I have family members we are clearly suffering exact same issues I have. I keep telling them to go ask for X,Y & Z test. Everyone of them as assured me their doctors don’t see any reason to run those tests. Then they complain about how hard life is.

Blows my mind.

Trusting "Experts" is a pandemic. We see it everywhere. They ubiquitous "They say..."

Trust economists that we can print trillions and its fine. Trust military the war is "almost over". Trust politicians that they will fix our problems. Trust teachers to teach our kids (Teachers need parents support at home!). Trust Coaches to teach our players (you gotta play catch at home to be good at baseball!). Trust doctors... trust priests... trust police...

The list goes on...

You have a good point, blind trust is never good. Should not be downvoted imho.

Sadly, it seems that the majority of people who start researching things on their own often arrive to completely wrong conclusions. And that's dangerous, for them and for everyone else.

An economist, for example, would have years of information and training in the field. And that forms a knowledge base in their brain that's (mostly) accurate, so anything they research and learn will be more correct than what an electrician/programmer/politician by trade would find.

To put it simply, they have more information and experience.

Of course, there are exceptions, some people are smart and can run circles around experts, but as I said, the majority of people are likely to arrive at the wrong conclusions.

I don't know how this could be fixed, perhaps more oversight and checks over the experts (many cases where people are just winging it or are complete frauds). But going off on your own and not trusting experts at all is a bad idea.

It could be that a lot of other professions don't have the same reflection rate as scientific areas.

In science and engineering, we are constantly being forced into realization that we were wrong, and we constantly try to fix things where the fix is just yet another problem we created.

I mean, even if you can code for 20 years, if anybody asks you whether you can program or not, you'll probably answer "nope I don't know anything about programming"... and that's a sign for an experienced person in that profession.

On the other hand, a lot of professions can get lucky with social camouflage, where they can blame others and it doesn't stick out for a controlling person. A lot of people that made it this way never were forced into reflecting on their bad decisions.

Experts are just like the rest of us.. egg spurts. Remember that folks :)

An ENT doctor recently told me antibiotics don't cause tinnitus.

The doctor at the covid plasma donation center sent my wife home because her clearly labeled "positive" (1.4 threshold, my wife's result was 4.9, but the doctor wanted a minimum of "80") test was too low for plasma donation -- it was not, the doctor was talking about a different quantitative test. After 8 months of people donating covid plasma, this doctor had no clue. It makes my blood boil thinking how many other people didn't donate plasma because of this idiot-- I sent my wife back and told her to make a big fuss and ask for another doctor, who actually explained the idiot doctor my wife can absolutely donate plasma, they just ran different kind of tests, and my wife's test result was more than likely meeting their own required antibody levels.

This was not a medical issue, it was a common sense issue -- if her test had a positive threshold level of 1.4 and she had a 4.9 result, how could this doctor not realize something was wrong with her requiring a value of "80". Did she actually think that only Chuck Norris can donate covid plasma?

My psychiatrist bullshitted me about the mechanism of action of some meds she was prescribing (I knew because I looked them up as treatment options beforehand) -- she did prescribe the "correct" medicine as far as I remember, but she just did not know the correct mechanism of action.

The infectious dissease specialist in my hospital stay for COVID-19 told me the hydroxychloroquine she was giving me was a proven anti-viral medication that worked really well in their national acclaimed hospital. Again, she was really clueless, she was just following protocol, she could at least have shut her mouth if she was clueless. They only gave hydroxychloroquine to otherwise healthy individuals because or cardiac issues the medicine was known to cause, OF COURSE those patients had really good outcomes, they were otherwise healthy, young individuals.

My wife is a dentist, she really likes her surgeon boss and his approach of telling patients the true odds of success of certain procedures and what to realistically expect out of them. But a lot of patients don't like that. They want to hear the doctor has a 100% success rate with every procedure and that all his dental implants last a lifetime.

So part of the problem is the public that will choose a lying, perhaps clueless doctor with a god complex above an honest doctor that really knows his stuff and is honest and upfront with his patients.

Had similar, had a severe reaction to the newer class blood thinners. Nurse at hematologists swore up and down that no one has reactions to it. Studies all prove that. Called me a liar.

Well started dealing with other specialist because I was having severe problems due to this medication.

Vascular and others all gave me warnings as they had been seeing a lot of problems. I found out the studies were done mostly in China, and were suspect.

Hematologist let me know I wasn’t allowed to come in because I wanted to switch. Mocked me for looking things up.

I had not taken it in 3 days and was already losing vision. So waiting months for another practice was a death sentence.

That was my breaking point. Stopped being Mr. polite.

First time I ever screamed and threatened a lawsuit.

Got my new medication. Life got better.

Also yeah antibiotics definitely can have a powerful effect.

Oddly I was diagnosed correctly due to how I responded to certain antibiotics.

It does reach a point that living is worse than death.

Had a similar final. Intentionally became a lunatic at ER. Refused to take prescribed blood thinner, which is a quick death for me. They finally listened and gave me a different one. Life drastically improved after that’s.

I absolutely do not want to minimize your experience, but I also want to point out that pain doesn't have to be excruciating to be life changing. Even 1 out of 10 pain can make it harder to concentrate or sleep, and, without proper management, can be debilitating. Chronic excruciating pain is, of course, oh so much worse. But even mild pain, when it extends out across months and years and decades, is not something you can appropriately manage by just rubbing some tough on it.

I do not want to minimize your experience either, as somebody suffering from chronic pain for the past two years myself. Chronic pain sensitizes you further, having this awareness helps you deal with your condition better. I highly recommend reading the following article.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/pain-is-weird.php

And as Dave Chappelle says -

Got to find a way to find joy in your existence in spite of that feeling.

I know a girl, my 'Viking friend' that landed upside down with a tractor on top of her. Just about everything that could be broken was broken. She ended up a thrill seeker because anything that would have killed her was also a blessing in disguise. Constant chronic pain at the maximum of what you are able to endure and live. The choice: painkillers and zoned out, unable to do much of anything or no painkillers, continuously in pain but at least conscious. She eventually learned how to deal with it, found a job that took her all over the world and is now happily married. One very impressive person.

Highly relatable. I've never considered taking my own life, but there were certainly moments where I thought "i need to get this fixed, i cannot live this way for the rest of my life".

I hear you. Blew a disk in high school. Set me back decades. A few years ago I got serous on stretching videos, finally found the ones that “fix” it. Doctors and chiropractors were helpful, but it never lasted

Would you mind sharing the videos?

https://youtu.be/ntUXh7qiyr0 And

https://youtu.be/PJJO9PmXm90

These are the two stretches that help me the most.

Highly recommend going through bob and Brad, and Dr Jo on YouTube. I try stuff all the time and have regained much of my mobility.

Thank you for sharing these.

Not sure about the original poster specifically, but when I had a herniated disk the two movements that helped the most (and I still perform along with others to this day) were:

- Prone Press Up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sws_GwrlYO0): Relieves tension in lower back, pressing discs back towards their natural position.

- Banded Hamstring Stretches (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msxQR56U7sI): You can use a belt for this if you don't have the bands, but properly and consistently stretching my hamstrings was the biggest thing I did to relieve (and 'cure') my back pain after the herniation.

This one has been wonderful for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI

He runs through them pretty fast, but someone in the comments recommended playing it at 0.75x speed and that works great.

I used this to get rid of my back pain from sitting all day. Now I prevent it altogether, by getting up once per hour, and walking around for five minutes, so I haven't had to do these stretches in a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNN3K2qj-L0

any series you like or do you just mean ones specific to your purpose?

I find that well-executed strength training (i.e. with proper form) eliminates all kinds of back-related issues for me. This talk has been really eye opening for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9poXGU11ms

+1 on this, for me deadlifting has single-handedly fixed my back. I tried PT for it, with mixed results, but once I started lifting it completely went away. YMMV, but it's worth considering for sure.

I'm clearly doing something wrong, but lifting has driven every time I've injured my back in the past 5 years. I've had trainers coach me on form, and _most_ of the time I'm fine. But if I have bad form p% of the time (e.g. 0.5-3%), and working out becomes a ~daily thing, then I have a handful of opportunities per year to injure myself.

You kind of provide recipe how to avoid it yourself. One suggestion that might or might not be relevant - don't do weightlifting at your proper max, and don't push your limits that way. Its a way to grow fast but also sure way to injury. There is no way to be at your limit and keep the proper perfect form, every time. You can always add more repetitions to workout.

For me weightlifting is about staying in shape for things like mountain adventures, feeling great, looking good. But Arnold-look is a silly goal for long term wellness, and so are the methods to get there. Once I stopped pushing the numbers and focused on more repetitions, I never had any injury. That's worth much more than some momentary number of kilos/pounds you did today - nobody will care about that tomorrow, but injuries remain, sometimes forever.

YMMV, but I found the following articles quite useful to 1) help self-manage symptoms brought on during strength training, and 2) to stop obsessing about my using "bad" form during training:

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/pain-in-training-what-d...

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/movement-variability-sh...

My anecdote: I tweaked my back 3 times in 18 months (like bedridden/WFH/swearing like a sailor for a week). Then I started going to a 1hour yoga class 1-2 times a week, and it's now been another 18 months without any issues. (Since covid I've been using DownDog app and doing 10-15 min sessions)

I'm sure you've seen drs. so I'm not going to get into too much detail about how I fixed my back pain, but I understand where you are coming from. I couldn't stand up straight for months. Laying in the MRI machine long enough to get a good image was excruciating. Just getting comfortable each night to sleep was an exercise in frustration. Narcotic painkillers didn't really help me, but a pain that never goes away helped me understand how people do get addicted to pills.

Finally, I had one of those injections directly on my spine and it was like magic. I walked into the appointment and couldn't stand up straight and walked out like I had never been hurt. For weeks, I would wake up each morning and dread getting out of bed because I wondered would this be the morning the pain came back.

It's been years now, and knock on wood, I hope to never have a problem again. I was always a weight lifter, but stopped powerlifting (maxing things like DLs), and stopped playing basketball. I still exercise a lot, but my entire focus now is on longevity. Strength is still a key component, but so is flexibility and learning proper movement.

I had a similar experience 20 years ago. I had a herniated disc triggered by heavy lifting. Spent about 10 months in pain (enough that it was a problem but not so much that it was debilitating). Finally had an epidural after months of PT that was going nowhere and was 100% fine the next day! I was lucky, the epidural broke the cycle of inflammation that in all likelihood the PT was actually aggravating.

BUT....

Last year I had another herniated disc triggered by axing down a tree. This time it was really bad. I spent two months in debilitating pain unable to move or really do much of anything. Couldn't stand, couldn't walk, couldn't sit, couldn't lay down. All I could do was dope myself up on narcotics and try to sleep the time away.

I had two epidurals. The first one took the edge off the pain away but I was till unable to move. The second epidural I actually regressed.

So I went and had a microdiscectomy done. Turns out my nerve had slipped into a canal that had no room for it and was pinched inside. A week or two of recovery and I felt great again.

BUT....

I didn't change my habits, covid-19 hit, I started working from home where I did not have anything close to an ergonomic setup and my back started to ache again. This time it was the original disc. I was doing ok, but it was enough that I knew I should talk to my doctor. A couple weeks later, at the pool, I decided to go off the diving board while my back was slightly bothering, and that slight bother became nearly debilitating pain again and two months of physical therapy.

I feel great again, the PT worked this time.

What's my point? The injection doesn't always work. PT doesn't always work. There's lots of ways things can go wrong. Take care of yourself and be careful, next time you might not be so lucky!

I completely understand. I'm fairly certain my original issue was caused by playing basketball. The running and jumping really does put a lot of strain on the body. I have never played ball again since the injury.

As I mentioned, I also changed my entire workout regime. While strength is super important, 500+ pound DLs maybe not so much at my age. Both basketball and powerlifting I love, so it was definitely a mental shift. But, now I'm probably in the best complete shape I have ever been in. My cardio, strength and flexibility are balanced and good. COVID has actually been a good thing since I can jump up at any point in the day and take a 15 minute yoga class.

Good luck, I hope neither of us have to deal with back pain again :)

Regarding your back pain, try to start walking barefoot using a forefoot technique, as opposed to heel striking as most people do. I suffered a lot with back pain (for years, despite the fact I was very active), tried everything to fix it to no avail, eventually switched to barefoot/forefoot running and walking (with all my shoes being zero drop and minimalistic), my back problems went away completely.

I can imagine trying to run by placing the toes/front foot first, but I find it difficult to imagine walking like that since it seems awkward. Do you have any links that depict this well?

I was able to transition to front foot walking by shifting my weight forward.

Buy a pair of Vibrams. Walking in toe shoes that have little to no heel support will naturally change over your gait in a week or two. I used to run 3-5 miles most days on concrete in running shoes and had knee and hip pain afterwards each day. Switching to toe shoes and by extension forefoot running eliminated the pain completely.

The impact of walking and running is dissipated into your calves instead of your joints, and the nice thing about muscle is that it grows back. Take it slow as you ramp up, I promise your calves aren't ready for it yet.

There are plenty of great "barefoot" walking shoes in the market nowadays.

I like to run on Vibrams and sandals (I generally use a Shamma Warriors during the summer), and a have a bunch of other shoes for walking (Lems, Freet, Vivobarefoot, etc.)

A good all-around barefoot shoe that is suitable for both running and walking that I'd recommend is the Lems Primal 2.

Also: use toe socks (Injinji is the only brand I'd recommend) and, if you can, use toe spacers for a while (1-2 years minimum) to correct some potential issues with your toes placement (unfortunately the only brand that seems to be decent enough in the market is Correct Toes, but it's rather expensive; the cheaper ones you can find everywhere are no good in my experience)

Have you ever had a stone bruise on your heal?

Yes? You walk like that. Shorter steps, kind of gliding a little bit.

No? Buy some Vibrams. You'll get one soon enough.

Here's a video that illustrates the walking barefoot technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGST6h3yhJE

As for the running technique, a good reference is this website:

http://runforefoot.com/

I get that exact burning sensation in the bottom of my spine! Weak core muscles; specifically wrong muscles trying to support the core. I had zero lower abdominals. Pilate's helps a lot.

I have to consciously engage muscles, even after practicing for years (can't afford Pilate's sessions which would make it go faster). Now I very rarely get the burning sensation and corresponding days, weeks, or months or not being able to sit or do much of anything.

Deleted.

That person is describing their chronic condition that has nothing to do with COVID. How would you blame that on the COVID quarantine procedures?

I didn't blame their condition on Covid but that doesn't matter at this point.

They described the mental hardships that come along with a chronic condition. Is it possible that quarantine is worsening those hardships? Sure. But when you claim that COVID related hardships are due exclusively to quarantine you are basically invalidating their experience by saying that a chronic condition alone wouldn't cause these issues.

Your comment would have been totally fine as a top level comment. It is a believable theory that quarantine is worsening mental illness. Your problem was the context in which your comment existed and the way you were effectively dismissing OPs experience out of hand.

My point was Chronic conditions / isolation. can cause/worsen mental illness. Covid or otherwise Personally I’ve had the best year in a long time, because I found the right treatments. Only one month before things locked down.

I don't disagree with your point. I simply got the impression from throwaway0a5e's comment that they were saying that these issues weren't worsened by quarantine but they originated from quarantine.

>They described the mental hardships that come along with a chronic condition. It it possible that quarantine is worsening those hardships? Sure. But when you claim that COVID related hardships are due exclusively to quarantine you are basically invalidating their experience by saying that a chronic condition alone wouldn't cause these issues.

I didn't claim that but I don't think that matters to you. All I said was that it's hard to tease out the difference between covid caused hardships and covid treament caused hardships. Cancer doesn't make your hair fall out on its own.

>Your comment would have been totally fine as a top level comment. It is a believable theory that quarantine is worsening mental illness. Your problem was the context in which your comment existed and the way you were effectively dismissing OPs experience out of hand.

I didn't dismiss his hardships. I didn't even dispute them. Stop putting words in my mouth. I only pointed out that (similar symptoms in other people who have had covid) might be caused by how we're treating it (quarantining people and so on) not the disease itself.

There is no point in continuing this conversation. You deleted your comment so it is both no longer relevant and can't be referred back to for further critique. Although the fact you deleted it after already posting it from a throwaway account would seemingly show that it was a comment that you weren't willing to stand behind.

This account is how old and has how many comments? Maybe it's not a throwaway anymore. Clearly I stand behind my comment enough to still be discussing it here.

You didn't stand behind your original comment or you wouldn't have deleted it. You are only standing behind what you claim your comment said. However now no one can actually judge whether those are the same or not.

Either way, the end result is that both of us look like idiots continuing to argue over this. That is why it is pointless to continue.

I've seen this exact thing happen with a facebook acquaintance. She already posted a lot about every problem she has on social media even before she got Covid, but with covid it was another beast. She tested positive before she got symptoms but before the symptoms even really began she was reading anything and everything in full blown hypochrondia-mode and getting more and more depressed and anxious about it (from what I could surmise from the editorializing she added to every covid related article or study she shared). Within one week of testing positive she was deep into the articles about chronic issues, so it was well before quarantining period was even over. It was pretty wild to observe and she's still posting stuff these days. It's hard to distinguish what is legitimate and what's for attention. While there may be legitimate issues, I can't help but think that it would be hard to separate legitimate issues from psychosomatic ones brought about by the way she dealt with it (and how it has become part of her facebook identity). She may be an extreme case, but I could totally see the same happening with other people to a lesser degree.

Oh it can be both. She could have a chronic issue, and be an attention seeker.

Hypochondria is a major problem. Part of me finding out what was wrong to make a list of every symptom, every condition that a subset of symptoms, keep track of every test and what conditions it eliminated as possibilities. The sets of possibilities are enormous. At every step you get called a hypochondriac.

I didn’t directly find it, but when I showed table of symptoms, and what medications had been tried and failed and what tests had been run a doctor realized it was a rare autoimmune condition.

It’s such an odd thing to be given a terrible diagnosis. But feel immense relief that it’s not “in your head”

From support group, this is Apparently a common reaction.

Yeah, totally agree it can be both, but of all the people I know that have had it, she's the only one exhibiting both hypochondria and posting comments suggestive of anxiety/depression. Certainly anecdotal, but enough to merit further investigation.

> separate legitimate issues from psychosomatic ones

I know what you are trying to say, but phrasing it like this is harmful. Psychosomatic issues are absolutely legitimate. Knowing it's psychosomatic means there may be other avenues of addressing it than if it wasn't, but calling the issues "not legitimate" is very problematic, akin to telling someone with depression "just think happy thoughts".

Yeah, that was poor word choice. I guess I was going for issues actually caused by the disease and not issues that are self inflicted or inflicted by society's response to the disease.

Even after months, there is -- fortunately -- no evidence that Covid causes chronic illness except in very rare cases.

Bro what The sad thing is that you get to gloat and be right for now but when you’re wrong next year other people are suffering and you’re scot free!

I really don't care about the outcome of something I have no reason to believe will happen.

Try some rona it’s delicious. Or are you too scared? Just go to your local bar

You can help the economy and get immunity at the same time! What do you have to lose?

Bars are closed.

If you don’t like where you live you can move somewhere else[1]

1. Economics[2]

2. You not having friends was a prepandemic and a you problem

Stop making stuff up.

Let's take it case by case. All sorts of things could happen, so let's not react until we have some signal. Otherwise we run the risk of overreacting and creating more harm than the thing we've reacted to.