I once owned a Mac Mini and iPod. Great hardware, but as a programmer I really hated the software. Too much restrictions. Not enough advanced user power.
That's why I always find it weird that some programmers are big Apple fanboys. I love Linux and the power that it brings. Why would a power user want to dabble in a restricted ecosystem? Never quite got that part.
Not everybody is a tinkerer. I get why, but I'm just not interested.
Programming is about controlling things and Apple hates giving users and developers control. It’s about getting your job done by being able to install and configure things the way you need them without a lot of hassle. If you’re willing to put up with that hassle and live within the confines that Apple has laid out for you than that’s good for you. But there’s a reason that the vast, vast majority of programmers are not using a Mac outside the SV bubble. Even Windows gives you more control! (and hardware freedom of choice.)
I’ve been programming since the early 90s and Apple has always been anti-developer and anti-power user.
The things I have wanted to install have generally not involved hassle on a Mac, and never more hassle than they would have on Linux.
Configuring things has varied; some are less hassle than Linux, some are more, some are impossible, but unlike Linux once I do a configuration there is generally no hassle _keeping_ the configuration over several OS updates.
And there is a lot less hassle in some ways, at least compared to the last time I was trying to use desktop Linux, around things like WiFi, drivers, finding a laptop that will actually work, etc. Yes, the latter is somewhat cheating because I am forced into Apple's hardware, but the hassle-savings from not having to dig through everything on the market to find the laptops that are well-supported by Linux is something I absolutely do not miss.
So I think what it comes down to is that different people find different things hassle-full.
You're right that it comes down to what people find hassle-ful. That's why I say that if you fit into whatever Apple limits you to, then good for you. But those limitations are why most programmers actually don't use a Mac.
> ...unlike Linux once I do a configuration there is generally no hassle _keeping_ the configuration over several OS updates.
That's not my experience at all. Using a rolling release (Manjaro) for years I've rarely, if ever, had to re-configure anything major. I have kept three of these machines running without any hassle. They all just work (1 laptop and 2 desktops).
Meanwhile on my Macbook Pro, just upgrading through El Cap, Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave and finally to Catalina - each and every time there's a major upgrade they've broken software that I use to the point where I just stopped using all the third party tools that I had to use to make my Mac work the way I want - tools like Karabiner, Better Touch Tool and so on... because I got sick of having to re-install or re-configure them after one of these updates. Also, Apple updates take forever and the update procedure is so clunky that even if you think you've updated something like XCode - the next time you open it you have to do more updates within the actual app. Package managers are soooo much nicer.
Haven't you read any of the threads here on HN around the time Apple releases a major new Mac OS update? There are always tons of people complaining about what they broke. I think last time we lost the ability to even run 32-bit apps...
> And there is a lot less hassle in some ways, at least compared to the last time I was trying to use desktop Linux, around things like WiFi, drivers, finding a laptop that will actually work, etc.
If you had said picking a distro [0], I'd agree with you. But finding a Linux laptop couldn't be easier. Google for: Linux laptop. Also, if you've been scanning headlines here on HN for any amount of time I'm absolutely positive that you could name one right off the top of your head if you thought about it for thirty seconds. Here's a hint: The model name/number starts with XPS.
Regarding drivers - every Linux desktop distro I've used has a GUI for picking drivers. You check off a couple boxes, hit apply and restart. Meanwhile on my Mac, I can't even get full functionality out of common hardware like a MS Natural Keyboard or a standard wireless USB mouse - so I gave up trying to do that too.
[0] I'll save you some time if you ever want to escape Apple: Pick an Arch-based distro.
I suspect we differ significantly in the sorts of configuration we do.
Also, please note that I mostly gave up on desktop Linux around 2006, after using it for 9 years straight as my only desktop OS. I kept using it for some things until earlier this year for work, and the update woes were still present, albeit smaller than in the past (maybe that's a Fedora-specific thing?). It's quite possible that even for a primary desktop the situation is better than it was in 2006, but at least for my use cases I'm at this point in "it ain't broken, don't spend time to fix it" territory wrt my OS. If that changes and there are things I want to do that macOS doesn't let me do, I will of course start looking at other options.
> I think last time we lost the ability to even run 32-bit apps...
Indeed, and for some people that's a deal-breaker. For me specifically it was a non-issue; everything I use had long ago upgraded to 64-bit. I had to install a newer version of DOSBox than I had before; that's it.
Again, this is not going to be everyone's experience!
Upshot: I'm glad we have the various options we have right now, since it's pretty clear that different people experience them very differently and value different tradeoffs. I would be very sad if any of them disappeared.
Probably the majority of the subset of programmers who hang out on here are but out in the normal world most of us are not.
I need a computer that consistently works without too much fiddling and has a terminal. My setup works fine for me and any time I spend fooling around with it I consider pretty much wasted so I try to avoid that.
I've used linux plenty and it just eats up a lot of my time and energy. I leave that stuff for the servers these days.
* Unix shell
* X
* Virtual desktop support
* Runs my editor of choice
* Runs on a laptop
* WiFi just works
* Audio just works
* Updates don't break nearly as much (e.g. I don't have to mess with X configuration after every major OS update).
I had pretty much stopped trying to do advanced configuration on Linux by that point, because every single major-version OS update would break nearly all of it.
There are some tradeoffs, sure, but the amount of time I no longer had to spend to keep up basic functionality was worth it to me. Others may make other tradeoffs.
Note that this is for macOS. I'm not sure how I feel about iOS yet.
WHY do developers find this acceptable?
Supporting these practices will only make things worse ...