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Comment by throwaway0a5e | Hacker News Reader

>Not that I think Portland, Maine is an epicenter of authoritarianism.

Relative to the kinds of places many of it's residents come from it is a paradise of individual liberty.

Relative to the rest of Maine it is the most authoritarian by a mile.

People from Portland (cue joke about them all being from MA) wouldn't blink twice about a local ordinance that would have the people of Bangor or Lewiston up in arms. I'm sure they don't mean to be authoritarian and it's just a reflection of the cultural norms from the places many of them come from and everyone else keeping their mouth shut (because nobody wants to rock that boat in a tourism economy) but having a reason doesn't excuse it. Yes I know I'm generalizing, please don't paint a straw-man and act like I called your hardliner libertarian uncle from Portland an authoritarian. Clearly I mean it at the statistical level and mean it relative to the other parts of Maine.

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This statement is a touch misleading. Portland's the only thing resembling a city in Maine, so it's going to have a larger government, organized police, etc, compared to the rest of the state.

However, I wouldn't describe anywhere in Maine as being remotely authoritarian in the first place. The disclaimer being I haven't really spent any time up north, but I suspect no one is alleging authoritarianism north of Bangor.

I grew up in Maine, and I think the statement is quite accurate. Portland is not authoritarian, but it is by comparison to the northern counties

The northern counties are mostly wilderness, with sparse population and government. Let's be real, anywhere is closer to authoritarian by comparison, but it doesn't make the latter authoritarian.

Just because Portland has zoning laws and historic districts doesn't make it authoritarian. I'd argue Portland is pretty minimally restricted compared to any other US city. Besides not being able to shoot guns in the middle of the old port, and having some red tape preventing you from knocking down the west end to build steel and glass buildings, I'm curious what is remotely authoritarian about the place.

Then again, I'm from a bit south of Portland (and originally from away, which Mainers seem to care about in perpetuity), and moved away to SF a couple years back. My perspective could just be off?

As a southern Mainer (not From Away :P) this is spot on.

Only because the northern part of Maine feels like it doesn't even have government.

Yeah, turns out a functioning city might feel more authoritarian than like the three people who do all the work in your local town office

A city can function just fine with out a bunch of local by-laws controlling what you can and can't do on your own property and proactive enforcement of local codes and minor civil infractions that aren't harming anyone. I live in one such city (of similar size). It's awesome.

Portland's problem in my observation is the wealth and cultural norms (not the same thing as the politics) of the tourists who become permanent residents and an economic impetus to keep things quaint looking for the tourists. Nobody wants tell the golden goose to stop crapping on the lawn.

So anywhere with zoning and parking tickets is authoritarian? Come on. What, specifically, is Portland doing that you'd consider to be authoritarian, and what would you propose in its place?

Also, tourists who become permanent residents are just residents. Trying to paint a group of fellow citizens as outsiders is a negative pattern, IMHO.

>So anywhere with zoning and parking tickets is authoritarian? Come on. What, specifically, is Portland doing that you'd consider to be authoritarian, and what would you propose in its place?

Zoning is inherently authoritarian and an affront to individual liberty.

Parking tickets depends on whether they write citations for things that aren't harming anyone, like people parking unregistered stuff on the street where there's ample parking available. If you're enforcing minor laws just because they're there and forcing people to step in line when them doing whatever doesn't appear to be bothering anyone then that passes my duck test for authoritarianism.

Frankly from the rest of your comments in here you're coming across like a masshole who thinks Portland is perfect because they don't have busybodies calling the cops on people over nothing and cops just chilling waiting to see someone do something so they can go fishing (or waiting to get one of those calls). And for the record, the poor parts of MA aren't authoritarian like that but people from the poor parts don't retire to Portland.

>Trying to paint a group of fellow citizens as outsiders is a negative pattern,

They're from elsewhere and are of a different culture. Sounds like a reasonable definition of "outsider" to me.

>Zoning is inherently authoritarian and an affront to individual liberty.

> Parking tickets depends on whether they write citations for things that aren't harming anyone, like people parking unregistered stuff on the street where there's ample parking available. If you're enforcing minor laws just because they're there and forcing people to step in line when them doing whatever doesn't appear to be bothering anyone then that passes my duck test for authoritarianism.

You've effectively painted all cities as authoritarian. If that's your position, fine, feel free to include Portland. But I still don't see any specific examples beyond has zoning, has police who might enforce its laws, etc. I think that becomes a very broad brush with which to paint anywhere that isn't rural as authoritarian, and I don't agree with you.

> Frankly from the rest of your comments in here you're coming across like a masshole who thinks Portland is perfect

Wrong on both counts. Portland has its issues, but I don't think heavy-handed enforcement of its many laws is one of them. Diversifying its economy away from tourism, and expanding its base away from 3-4 large, very legacy employers, would be two big ones in my mind.

> They're from elsewhere and are of a different culture. Sounds like a reasonable definition of "outsider" to me.

Authoritarians love in-groups and out-groups. Just a hop, skip, and jump to nationalism and fascism. Not everyone that moves into a place is going to want to change it to their ideal, but they're going to have their own perspectives, and I see no reason not to respect them.

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