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Comment by nostromo | Hacker News Reader

Netflix's current trajectory makes me sad.

It reminds me of cable TV now: cheaply produced shlock, with less and less premium TV.

The last thing I watched that was truly wonderful on Netflix was Mindhunter -- which I heard was canceled by Netflix because it's too expensive.

Meanwhile there's a dozen or more new "reality TV" knock offs seemingly every week.

We've switched most of our viewing to HBO now -- it has a lot of fantastic content, like Raised by Wolves, Lovecraft Country, His Dark Materials, Chernobyl, etc. And they actually stand behind their product because they believe in it -- they aren't constantly pulling the rug out from under their viewers like Netflix does.

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> The last thing I watched that was truly wonderful on Netflix was Mindhunter -- which I heard was canceled by Netflix because it's too expensive.

Nnnnnooooo!

https://www.wired.com/story/why-netflix-keeps-canceling-show...

I honestly consider this the same as Google. They're so focused on insane metrics they don't realize that by killing everything new - good and bad, people are just going to give up on the company entirely because their reputations sour over time.

I mean why am I going to try something new from Google just to find out they're cancelling it in 2 years? Likewise, why would I invest my time in a new Netflix series just to find out it's cancelled after 2 seasons?

The true problem is it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.

There was an interview somewhere with Satya Nadella where he mentioned that one of the things he had tried to change for Microsoft was to stop chasing immediate metrics because most long term advantages of companies (like good image) aren't measurable in the short term.

Lately it feels like that's the issue with most tech companies, they will do anything to see the uptick in random metrics (engagement, etc) without realizing they are creating miserable experiences by destroying other areas that are less measurable.

Yes, I'll click more in your button if you place it full screen over the main content of your app. No, it's not making me more engage in what you're showing me, it's just forcing me to go through some hoops and now I hate you for it.

I think Netflix should give every series one season. At the end of the season, producers and writers have a chance to pitch to Netflix the number of seasons that they want. A final determination is made, and it is not changed. Writers have a target ending to shoot for, fans know what to expect.

It all depends on the story. ATLA (Avatar: the last airbender) is a great example for something that needs a contract for multiple seasons from the start: they knew they'll have 3 seasons, and that was one big arc and storyline. Same for Trollhunters; it was unfortunate to only have 1 season for the third installation, Wizards: it was way to fast.

Other series, however... are dead slow. It was delightful to recently watch a 1998 film, `Ronin`: 2 hours, and more story happened, than in 2 seasons of most series.

There is no simple answer to this.

Isn't the biggest problem that writers don't have a clear destination in mind for the series? And so it wanders aimlessly. That's exactly the problem I think this would solve.

It's not the same at all. Google is a technology company where technology is supposed to stick around. Netflix is (now) a media company where TV shows die by default.

I don't know, I don't think we give network/cable TV enough credit.

I'm pretty intrigued by stories of how certain shows flopped in their first season (or two) but managed to persevere through some persistent TV exec who kept it funded until they got the story right.

Plenty of examples of mainstream TV shows that went this route. Seinfeld, The Office, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, the list goes on.

TV execs really care about the product. By contrast, I don't think Netflix cares about the product. I think Netflix cares about the data about the product, which ultimately means dropping an original after 2 seasons.

It works I guess, but I've haven't had a Netflix subscription in a while, and on those occasions where I do renew it I just take a peek for a month before leaving again. More than enough time to watch 2 seasons of TV.

Netflix strategy seems to be hook you with a big budget new show, then slash the budget for season 2 and see if it still sticks(interestingly that didn't seem to be the case with Lost in Space, and Dark Crystal was just outright cancelled).

Also watching a lot more Amazon+HBO these days.

Dark Crystal was so good, too. It's a shame, but that format and that concept is always chasing a small audience. I'm sad we won't get a season 2, though.

This was very evident with Altered Carbon as well. First season felt like it had a budget on par with the best blockbusters. Second season had the budget of some cut rate 90s SciFi show on a third tier cable network.

According to David Fincher himself [1], Netflix hasn't canceled Mindhunter, merely put it on indefinite hiatus. Fincher says Netflix actually wanted more seasons, but that he found the show too stressful to make.

[1] https://www.vulture.com/2020/10/mindhunter-season-three-not-...

Reality TV is cheap and engaging. The same reason it worked on broadcast/cable. It’s all about numbers now since Netflix is a large company.

I hope companies like HBO keep trying to win with quality over junk.

Don't get your hopes up. All the creative heads at HBO have left and HBO Max is on the way to become way more Netflix like than ever.

AppleTV+ seems to be the new HBO. The 4 or 5 shows/movies on there I saw were all decent if not great.

The problem with this kind of "wide appeal" demographic-based analysis used by content producers is that it ignores specialisation.

Famously, MTV stopped showing music videos years ago. They did a bunch of analysis to see what the target demo for a music channel is, what that demographic wants to see in general, and started playing that.

But, obviously, if I turn on the MUSIC TV channel, I expect to see music.

I'm the "target demo" for Science Fiction. That doesn't mean I want to see SciFi when I turn on the evening news. It doesn't mean that I never want to see a period drama, or a nature documentary.

But based on a purely statistical analysis, I should only be shown Science Fiction forever and ever, on every channel, because that's my favourite content category.

Similarly, the number #1 most popular content for the general public is sports for men and celebrity gossip for women.

Does this mean that every streaming service, TV channel, and content producer should create nothing else other than Soccer, Football, Dancing with the Stars, and Big Brother Celebrity?

It seems producers think so. They really do, and NetFlix is going down that path as fast as their statistics will carry them...

Yeah, I discovered Altered Carbon had been canceled by Netflix for much the same reason (expensive). It was one of the few shows that I was really excited about.

Am I going to cancel my Netflix subscription? Probably not, they still have all the Star Trek franchises where I am, and Friends.

Given that I'm almost never in a country where I can watch the broadcast television (digital nomad), streaming is the only option.

Would love a (legal) service that allowed me to watch AU/UK TV from anywhere in the world. Currently it's possible to do this sometimes with the channel apps and a VPN, but this is a gray area at best.

I get that there are content licensing issues, but the shows that I'm mostly interested in don't really have these problems. Things like the Great British Bake Off don't really make it outside the UK.

I also get that the advertising is focused on local audiences a lot of the time, but surely this is solvable with streaming.

Mindhunter, the one about serial killers, was cancelled? That’s so sad, it was a great show.

It’s okay. Fincher cancelled it to do a movie with Netflix that looks great. Netflix wasn’t going to get Mindhunter continued successfully without Fincher’s interest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mank

> canceled by Netflix because it's too expensive.

I'm sad to hear that. Their reason makes no sense to me; that show is mostly dialogue.

Fincher uses a huge amount of expensive digital effects to recreate the era. There are VFX breakdowns on YouTube if you're interested.

Yikes, HBO actually joined the Netflix boat early last year. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/03/hbo-b...

I find shows like Deadwind are the only shows that are worth watching. A few other nordic noir shows are good too. I think the average person probably likes horrible shows like Riverdale. And Netflix is going to have a lot of success because of that.

If the average person likes it, maybe it's not horrible. Or maybe it's exactly what it was intended to be.

Fincher has said that it was too expensive to create, but he also felt like it was consuming too much of his energy. I got the impression from his interview that he didn't want to pursue it.

This is probably rarely mentioned, but Apple TV+ is another great alternative for quality (not so much for quantity at the moment). A friend group of mine with a preference for hard-hitting HBO shows has been alternating between the two.

Checkout "The Midnight Gospel" on Netflix -- it's one of a kind.

I gave episode one a shot -- you're right, definitely strange. Someone basically recorded a convo with their friend about drugs and played it back with an animation. Reminds me of some Newgrounds content back in the day.

The animation can be, um, overwhelming. The conversation is with Dr. Drew Pinsky (not a fan, but in this context he's spot on).

It goes way beyond that into further "explorations of being". Clearly not for everyone, but it resonated enough to get its own subreddit :-).

Highly recommend watching the Italian show Gomorra

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