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Comment by donaltroddyn | Hacker News Reader

Not saying that surveillance is right, but I've lived in London for a year and a half and never felt this way, I don't think I've ever talked to someone who felt this way there, you must be a very paranoid individual.

I will say this though: having lived in both Beijing and London, I've always felt ultra safe (and I lived in London during some terrorist attacks). On the other hand, I lived in SF for the same time and I never felt safe there, avoiding walks at night, avoiding public transport for the most part, avoiding some streets, etc. I also lived in Chicago and I felt much worse there (at least in SF I could still take walks).

On the other hand, although I find driving in SF much more stressful and confusing than London(despite being a native RHT driver), I never managed to get a ticket in SF. Every time I visit London I keep getting letters with some bullshit traffic violation captured by a camera for months after I am back.

Also having lived in London for 7 years, I can't say I felt safe walking at night other than in the very central places. Try visiting Elephant and Castle or Seven Sisters alone during the night.

Edit: spelling

> although I find driving in SF much more stressful and confusing than London(despite being a native RHT driver), I never managed to get a ticket in SF.

Did you ever park outside a parking garage?

> Try visiting Elephant and Castle or Seven Sisters alone during the night.

Did that many times, it was fine? Only place I've ever felt unsafe was Brentford after I got hassled there.

Did you enter the congestion zone without paying?

That's fined pretty swiftly.

Would London or Beijing turn into a Chicago or SF if it weren’t for CCTV?

Would Chi or SF become a London or Beijing with CCTV?

Doubtful to both. But a lot can be explained by social determinants of wealth and what that turns people into.

Why is baby’s response flagged and dead ?!?!?? He literally just gave his perspective as a person living in that city. The people that flagged them should be banned from this site.

I assume they took offence with the "you must be very paranoid" just because someone feels odd about surveillance. It certainly seems pretty rude to me.

I think non-CCTV plastered European cities is probably a more apt comparison than Chicago and San Francisco, two cities that have a reputation for being unsafe in the US (which has major problems with violent crime across the board).

> I also lived in Chicago and I felt much worse there (at least in SF I could still take walks).

Depends where you are and what times.

3am on the redline in the northside.. Be ready to move at a moments notice.

Not to discount your feelings completely, but I’m always a little skeptical when someone says a place “feels” safe or unsafe. Do you have reason to believe you actually were less safe in San Francisco compared to London?

My first two weeks in SF I took the bus twice, the first time a group of kids started slapping random people, I was prepared to fight and protect my SO but they didn't get to me; the second time some guy just ran and took a girl's phone, she grabbed to it for what seemed like a full minute, screaming and shit, then finally let go... I was paralyzed, especially after the event of the previous week, after that I vouched not to ever take the bus again in SF.

After that some homeless people screamed at me, some tried to punch me slowly (easy to avoid), I got used to it with time but it's still not a nice feeling to take walks. I wouldn't let my SO walk alone at 3AM through the streets for example (while I would have no problems with that in London or Beijing).

Murder rate in London, including terrorism: 1.6 per 100,000.

Murder rate in San Francisco: 5.17 per 100,000.

> This is not obvious to me. London subjectively feels like an oppressively surveilled and policed city to me any time I spend time there, and avoid it for that reason.

Spend some time in a real autocracy, then see if you feel the same way.

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