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Comment by xyzzy_plugh | Hacker News Reader

Can shorten that down for you:

Crypto is a magnet for fraud

I can parallel that for you: Cash is a magnet for fraud

Banks were just recently outed for laundering 800x more cash for drug cartels than Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency system has ever done.

And HSBC and JPMorgan got nothing but fined and slaps on the wrist.

Is it really even a punishment if you made more than the fine imposed?

So your argument is that it is OK to promote and launch cryptocurrencies when we know that they are huge avenues for fraud, because banks also do it. Race to the bottom, here we come!

Now re-do it as a percentage of cash activity and as a percentage of bitcoin activity.

The internet is a magnet for scams. That doesn't mean there aren't legitimate uses for it

I've bought and sold maybe $750,000 crypto in my life (and profited!), and while holding coin I've never been able to find a legitimate use for it that didn't seem like a novelty (Shop at [existing store], but with Bitcoin!).

Pretty much all of the actual uses for cryptocurrency involve some sort of crime (drugs/warez/fraud/child porn).

We've had Bitcoin for 11 years now, and nothing meaningful has changed. It wasn't revolutionary - all it did was introduce the anonymity of cash to the Internet.

I think it depends on personal circumstances. Residents of Venezuela, South Africa, Zimbabwe probably found crypto an incredibly vital way to stash their holdings in one currency and redeem in another, contrary to a perverse government's wishes--similar to converting cash to a small bag of diamonds and then fleeing. If your nation already uses a global reserve currency then the uses are not so compelling.

This Venezuelan story is so overblown: https://www.cryptoknowmics.com/news/crypto-influencer-breaks...

At this point it really seems like the "Venezuela is why bitcoin matters" story is a useful emergent PR campaign narrative for the cryptocurrency world to justify their existence.

It's not entirely true, but also it's not entirely false either. Crypto still serves the needs of the under/unbanked, probably not as much as it could but certainly in meaningful and measurable ways, as much as detractors like to argue otherwise.

Yes, Venezuelans want to eat, and yes, Venezuelans would probably convert any crypto into cash ASAP. But also due to the sanctions (first internal from the ill-fated currency exchange control schemes of the Chavez regime, then from the rest of the world) holding onto any amount of currency digitally is very risky- and these are risks that brokers pass down to the common populace in the form of outrageous fees, either explicit or as awful exchange rates. Crypto helps to leverage against that somewhat, and LocalBitcoins' traffic remains considerable [0] to this day. Unfortunately many Venezuelans now conflate shitcoins (e.g. Petro, BCash) with real crypto, and I can't exactly blame them, given how badly the Petro "experiment" ended up like (which, frankly, was just another attempt from the regime to launder money without needing to rely on foreign currency).

If you ask someone if they accept USD they will invariably say yes these days, but cash only. If you want to send or receive hard money digitally, you'll need to have some "contact" to create or manage an US bank account in your stead, and just make do with the constant risk of that money just disappearing one day for whatever reason. And needless to say, holding onto large amounts of cash isn't exactly safe either, as you run the risk of getting robbed by "regular" criminals or ending up part of a police raid after someone snitches on you.

Disclaimer: I'm Venezuelan, and I'd think I know more about our particular situation than some clout-chasing gringo influencer. ;) [1]

[0] https://www.similarweb.com/website/localbitcoins.com/#overvi...

[1] I apologize if me derisively dismissing that person's arguments (or if the usage of "gringo" comes off as too offensive- it is mildly derogatory, but it's also playful) weakens my own, but I'm simply sick and tired of people that either have no skin in the game or with interests that lie elsewhere, and raise similar points against crypto when they're just patently untrue.

Half the populations of those countries dont even have reliable electricity. There is no chance they're using BTC except maybe for the politicians to launder money from corruption.

Where can I find reliable statistics on bitcoin use in Venezuela, South Africa, and Zimbabwe?

> It wasn't revolutionary - all it did was introduce the anonymity of cash to the Internet

I think you missed the point? That's it. That's the revolutionary part!

I think it did change one thing. It made it possible to ransom people's data.

> I've never been able to find a legitimate use for it that didn't seem like a novelty (Shop at [existing store], but with Bitcoin!).

You're let down because a currency is acting like a currency?

I was traveling to Budapest a couple years ago. Lost my debit card and needed to withdraw some cash. I looked up a Bitcoin ATM around me, used my phone to transfer some BTC and withdrew local currency (the fee was probably a bit high).

I did not plan on doing this, I didn't even know how to use these BTC ATMs before this. But the ability to have access to cash in any country you are without international transfer hassle is one huge benefit.

Here's a use case:

Store your wealth digitally in an asset with a fixed supply that is not controlled by a government entity without the use of a third-party intermediary.

Obviously this applies to only to Bitcoin and not inflationary cryptocurrencies.

Yes, obviously you cannot store wealth in a cryptocurrency whose inflation will at some point forever remain under 0.1% [sarcasm] Never mind that the yearly coin loss is probably closer to 1%.

You can store your wealth in anything you like, even highly inflationary assets like cash, if that floats your boat. I was clarifying the use case I offered, which was an asset with a fixed supply.

Except without the anonymity.

There are plenty of other crypto currencies that do provide anonymity, that were built on the shoulders of bitcoin, e.g. Monero, ZCash, etc.

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