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Comment by MrDresden | Hacker News Reader

It honestly scares me to hear my nieces and nephews, all around the 10 year old mark, talking about aspiring for internet fame more (and in some cases exclusively) than any other actual profession or healthy aspiration.

And the education and affluency of the family has no bearing on this, which scares me even more. That this need for wide audience social acceptance is so ingrained in humans that no matter the nurturing environment that the kids grow up in, they will still heavily latch onto this as anything worth aspiring for.

Obviously they will not all (or even any) attempt to go this route when they grow up, yet I can't help wonder if this is closing off some part of their minds to all the other paths in life which wont get them direct public audience appreciation.

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> It honestly scares me to hear my nieces and nephews, all around the 10 year old mark, talking about aspiring for internet fame more (and in some cases exclusively) than any other actual profession or healthy aspiration.

Er, isn't this a common childhood cliche? Aspiring to be a pop/rock star, pro athlete, famous actor/actress, etc.?

I guess I fail to see how this is meaningfully different from any of those things.

> Er, isn't this a common childhood cliche? Aspiring to be a pop/rock star, pro athlete, famous actor/actress, etc.?

All of which require time and dedication to the craft to get good at. Being a internet celebrity (in the sense of being Instagram famous), while something that needs to be worked on to get there, does not in most cases involve as much work and creativity. That is what I am getting at.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not talking about the scores of people that create on the internet and become famous for it (art, engineering, interesting youtube vids etc). Only the "hey look at me posing on a private beach while sipping this Champagne and oh look a sponsor" types.

Those are sadly the ones my sibling's kids are looking at and hoping to mirror.

> All of which require time and dedication to the craft to get good at.

I don't mean to be cynical about it, but I think you're looking at this through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. There are plenty of examples of famous entertainment personalities both present and historical that don't exactly espouse "dedication to the craft".

Not to the throw anyone under the bus in particular, but the entire "pop punk" wave of the early 2000s wasn't really about exceptional music talent as much as it was about selling an image. I think we can all also name an actor/actress or two (or five) whose primary qualifications seem to be family connections or, well, being exceptionally attractive.

And that's not anything new, obviously. I mean hell, they made a whole movie about it back in the day: "Singing in the Rain". Ghostwriters for songs have been a thing since, I dunno, at least the 60s (and probably much longer, I'm just thinking of Carole King in particular and how she got her start).

> Being a internet celebrity (in the sense of being Instagram famous), while something that needs to be worked on to get there, does not in most cases involve as much work and creativity.

I think you're vastly underselling how much work it is to be an internet celebrity. Twitch streamers often talk about the fact that even a three day vacation sets them back considerably in terms of viewership. Differentiating yourself in a sea of sameness is creativity. Public sentiment is extremely fickle and difficult to tame.

Ultimately internet celebrities are just entertainment personalities. If you want to dismiss entertainment personalities in general that's fine, but the idea of an entertainment personality certainly isn't anything new.

Except that the aspiring pro athlete is doing esports now. They are trying to get World of Warcraft or Fortnite pros.

The meaningful difference is the changed morality. The main goal seems to be shifting. Before it was: principled, ethical, decent, proper, just, honorable, honest, good. The goal would be to serve your team as a principled, ethical, decent, proper, just, honorable, honest, good leader always raising the bar, first for yourself and then others.

Now the main goals seem to be exploitation, spammy link building, dishonest marketing, the me-first principle.

> Except that the aspiring pro athlete is doing esports now. They are trying to get World of Warcraft or Fortnite pros.

First and foremost, I doubt many children who aspire to be Fortnite pros would have ever considered being a professional athlete in a past life. Aside from some very notable exceptions (e.g. Tyler1), those don't seem to be intersecting circles very often.

Secondly, they're just lofty aspirations. Most children have no more chance of being Fortnite pros than they do of being professional athletes. Does it really matter what childhood fantasy they choose to chase, outside of obvious exceptions (e.g. serial killer)?

I assume your counterpoint here will be about physical fitness, so I'll just say: It's obviously possible to be a healthy and fit professional gamer (see: well, I already said, Tyler1). It's also obviously possible to be a pretty unhealthy professional athlete (see: The numerous ex-pros past and present suffering from CTE).

> Before it was: principled, ethical, decent, proper, just, honorable, honest, good.

I don't know where this is coming from. Professional sports has always been full of people like Mike Tyson and the Boz. Hollywood obviously has/had people like Harvey Weinstein. Do I really need to name any "unprincipled" rock stars?

> Now the main goals seem to be exploitation

The entertainment industry is just so incredibly rife with this since basically inception that I don't really think I need to even list an example here.

> spammy link building

Hollywood, of course, has been infamous for the IRL equivalent of this for quite some time.

> dishonest marketing

Milli Vanilli, or any number of artists that don't actually write their songs

> the me-first principle.

Eli Manning famously said he would go to law school before playing for the Chargers, the team that drafted him, because he didn't think it would be good for his career.

I don't know many principled, ethical, decent, proper, just, honorable, honest, good rockstars.

I wanted to be a milkman, because I wanted to only work in the morning and have the rest of the day off.

Child me had no concept that milkmen don't earn as much money as engineers

Yes, I think this is the other side of being a kid :).

There'd certainly be a lot more paleontologists and crane operators if we followed our passions as children to fruition.

I have a nod of approval to your idea my idea is that shows like The bachelorette spawned a huge generation of people who think marriage is this throwaway ticket to temporary happiness and if you look at divorce rates it's sort of lines up

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