iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro
apple.com
apple.com
https://www.apple.com/iphone-12/
https://www.apple.com/iphone-12-pro/
Also: don't miss that there are multiple pages of comments in this thread. You can get to those by clicking More at the bottom of the page—or do it like this:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24767378&p=2
It seems...kinda dumb. Instead of plugging in a lightning cable, I can now stick a hockey puck to the back of my phone?
The “safe” in MagSafe came from its “yankability” without sending your device flying. But if my phone is laying on top of a hockey puck...it’s gonna go flying if I trip on the cable.
Why couldn’t we fill in the lightning port and use flush surface contacts, like the MagSafe of yesteryear?
I’m also not sure why my case needs to magnetize to my device, getting rid of the lip around the screen that made it less cringe to lay my phone face down.
Am I missing something? I really don’t understand this feature.
EDIT: did I see an AirPower reboot in there or am I dreaming?
AirPower's big promise was that it was a multi-device charging mat that didn't require perfect alignment to get high power charging. Apple ultimately cancelled it, likely because this proved too difficult to do safely. (rumored to be thermal issues with the multi-coil design)
MagSafe solves the alignment problem in a simpler way. Instead of carefully aligning your phone, the magnets just "suck" your phone to the optimal charging position.
I hate to be a pessimist but with them not including a charger or headphones, they're slowly moving toward no data port whatsoever
It’s nice that it’s wireless on the new iPhone and all, but it’s still an extra cable (or puck) to carry around.
Much like the headphone cable, I think that things like charging could be done in such a simple way, that the alternatives that are presented just don’t make the users lives easier and generate unnecessary waste.
Additionally, it looks like the goal is to let your phone be held vertically, while attached only to the magnet. This makes sense for car mounts, where you may want to mount your GPS via magnet and charge it simultaneously.
It appears you can have either MagSafe or the phone holder, but not both. Does Apple have a solution for this?
Cases then need to have an exposed area for charging, and the surface contacts lower the weather resistance.
It seems you would pick the phone up and if you didn’t grab and put down the charging disk, it would go clunk and hit the ground.
Sort of like the watch charger will do if it isn’t in a holder. Except louder and more expensive to replace.
This was actually shown in the “snap” video they showed where a phone was pulled away.
I couldn’t understand, are we expected to adhesive this to our bedside stand? Velcro adhesive? Use some other accessory that holds it down?
It just feels incomplete to me.
The cases and wallet thing seem great but I don’t get this charger.
I don't remember MagSafe on macbooks ever being truly flush. It was less deep of a port than USB, sure, but it was still a port.
As for why not, there could be many reasons, but I have a feeling it might have something to do with their waterproof/dustproof rating. That's just a pure speculation on my end though.
Or, more likely, it is simply because swapping the lightning port with a magsafe one would make the phone pretty much impossible to use while charging. But with a lightning port + magsafe wireless charging, you get to have both use cases covered (using while charging with lightning, drop off for an overnight charge on your magsafe charging surface).
Primary goal here is to get a secure, consistently lined up charging mechanism.
Apple has used magnets in chargers before, and lo- a brand was reborn.
It also costs an extra! It's MAGIC! Aren't you excited?
Touch ID (combined with a home button) is a lot faster. You can reach into your pocket or handbag, put the finger on the button and press it while you're taking it out. By the time your phone is out it's unlocked and on the home screen. I don't recall seeing people failing to unlock their phones while paying with Apple Pay before but now it's a reasonably common occurrence if they didn't "prime" it ahead of time.
You can also quickly unlock your phone if it's not directly aligned with your face without having to pick it up (let's say it's on a table or desk) or if you're letting another person handle it.
Face ID is also annoying in bed, when either your face is obstructed by pillows/blankets or if you're holding your phone too close to your face and need to hold it further away for a second, illuminating the whole room in the process.
Touch ID also makes the authentication action explicit. If you're handling someone else's phone, you can look at the lockscreen without attempting to authenticate by simply keeping away from the home button and using the power button to wake it up. With Face ID the simple fact of looking at the phone is an authentication attempt and you'd be consuming the limited amount of attempts the owner has before they have to fall back to a passcode.
Problem is that Apple just isn't nimble enough to do anything about it. Everything important about these phones was set in place before there was a pandemic.
A 6 character alphanumeric is still way safer than a 6 character numeric. Just pick something you can type as quickly as you can punch in 6 numbers?
https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...
(I don't use apple phones because I'm against not being able to run whatever you want on your pocket computer)
Size is pefect (iPhone range), love the iPhone 4 like frame and overall look. I don't use a phone too much at home (only on the go) so don't need the iPhone 12 Pro premium features. For taking photos and videos, I'll use the Sony A7 iii.
NOTE: in Australia the price is A$1199 for 12 mini 64GB, and A$1449 256GB (more expensive than my iPhone X 256GB).
The pants look artificial, the hands and feet are really dark, you can't see the detail on the trees. Is this just a really hard angle to shoot, against the summer sky?
The weirdness probably comes from the post treatment. But still impressive for a smartphone. The result (almost) look like something you could expect from RAW post treatment of a reflex camera take.
Don't know if I'll go for the iPhone 12 Pro or a refurbished iPhone 11 Pro but for my amateur usage my mind is set. I wont replace my 10 years old reflex with a new one. Theses are "good enough" in most use cases and fit in my pocket.
I don't know exactly what I'm waiting for, but this wasn't really it.
(Also enjoying using one of the last TouchID iPhones during Covid 19)
It's a testament to Apple's build quality and long term support that you don't need to upgrade.
Samsung and Android are big on the half baked gimmicks and lackluster supports. Those phones you have to upgrade after a few years as they become more bloated than a Windows 95 machine bought from CompUSA.
I refuse to upgrade to an iPhone without Touch ID. Until my phone absolutely dies and there is no choice, then I may consider.
Now previously this year, I dropped my phone and the glass broke - but it still works. So I am on the verge of upgrading, but iPhone 12 still doesn't really... make me want to upgrade - if I can put it like that.
So I am rolling with a cracked screen iPhone 6S+ until I can find the motivation to upgrade. Maybe my battery life is becoming one and the problem with charging.
Anyway some years ago I got an iphone XR (via work) and it's just fine, it'll do me for the forseeable future. It was an incremental upgrade to my iphone 7 or 8, whichever it was.
They also present a lot of features (especially photos), but without comparison I am left wondering, how much better is the new stuff. And why should I buy it...
Sounds great with that new glass too; I wondered if they would show how much better it is -- Maybe do something funny, risky, and slightly stupid like the Cybertruck incident. Nope: Just 4x better than before -- Whatever those 4x means. Get some hammers out -- Do something...
The A14 is also faster than before. No real-life demo comparison. Wouldn't it have been easy to compare the games on the GPUs (stuttering frame rate on one side)? Just something. If you can't show us why it is better, it is not good enough.
Oh, and why no actual live demos with the phone instead of just 100 great photos and videos of the phone and by the phone?
The old keynotes had a slide with the comparison of the mini, normal, pro models and the end. Those actually served as an informative summary at the end. Instead Tim Cook just told us what we had seen, and that "it was the day everybody had waited for", and then I am left struggling to remember why the pro is more expensive and how much more it was...
They may be the best at this, and it does feel (overly) polished, but I feel the old much simpler Jobs keynotes were far ahead in enthusiasm and far more entertaining. Sorry.
Its a great keynote but I would have preferred more subtlety in the production toys.
You can tell Apple's target demographic isn't enterprise markets at every turn.
It's interesting that a reasonably sized phone is now a selling point in itself.
In general i like keeping my devices for as long as possible - so when i jumped from the iPhone 6 to the iPhone 10, i was surprised to learn that the phone was hard to use with one hand now, extremely slippery and way, way heavier than my iphone 6.
The mini seems like a good size for me. The Pro 12 looks absolutely amazing though! I usually don't fanboy but goddamn their product design is stellar.
I'd pay decent money for a 4" phone.
My larger-limbed friends used to complain about how hard it was to operate dinky candy-bar phones with their large fingers. And today, they’re perfectly happy holding and tapping on a Galaxy S20 Ultra, presuming the display has been scaled up.
In absolute numbers there’s a good market for “mini” (or smaller) phones. But relatively speaking it’s a niche.
The market has spoken! But fortunately the market is literally billions of smartphone users so there’s a lot of room for variety.
I waited years to get the SE2 and it turned out to be the size of iPhone 8. The same iPhone 8 that introduced the double-tap to fix the “thumb reach problem” which Apple usd to proudly tout for the ORIGINAL iPhone 5 and SE.
I would have upgraded this year normally. With travel mostly shut down for a while though, I may end waiting another year. I don't need an upgrade for mostly using around the house.
Sony was the last one in Android world to offer it to us. Now, even they chickened out.
If you do, like I do, then you don't buy one. If you don't, then you buy one: Apple sells them, everyone else sells them.
There's nothing to talk about: I've thrown my last two included chargers in a box, where they languish next to my Lightning-cable-equipped EarPods. I'm unlikely to get a new phone in this cycle, but if I did, the difference would be two gizmos which I won't use, won't be included.
Yeah, and the USB A to lightning cables they came with still work fine on the new phones. Just because it comes with a USB C cable doesn’t mean you have to use it.
Especially worrying because I don't have a personal laptop with USB-C or any USB-C wall warts. I have a lot of friends who don't have any USB-C gadgets at all. Kids who finally get old enough for a phone will be in for a rude awakening.
I actually don't like that they removed the accessories from the box, unless they can prove that they reduced the cost of the phone's overall price.
I sell my accessories to other people which reduces the phones overall cost by a non-insignificant amount. People will happily pay $5 less for a 2nd hand (but brand new and unused) Apple accessory like earpods/adapter if it's genuine since there are so many fakes out there.
You will likely already have a charger and a USB-A to Lightning Cable. Use those.
If you dont, the package comes with USB-C to Lightning, now you can get a USB-C 18W Fast Charger at a reduced price of $19.
It's not the SIM card slot - that's on the left side. It's not a new TouchID sensor - the website doesn't even mention it at all. And yet it exists in every single render.
AU: https://www.apple.com/au/iphone-12/images/overview/design_mi... US: https://www.apple.com/v/iphone-12/a/images/overview/design/d...
Here’s a picture: https://pasteboard.co/JvDAuop.jpg
I find them really hard to watch. It's about 95% fluff and bullshit and 5% about the technology. I usually just read the bullet summary afterwards.
I do agree the talking parts could be maybe 50% shorter though.
I just wish they’d give iPad the same treatment and make a Pro in a Mini size :)
I was hoping for the headphone jack to make a comeback but I think that’s a lost cause at this point
I know we have everything in the cloud these days but with apps with rich assets and smartphones being more capable with cameras, you run out of 64 GB quite easily. 128 GB should be the baseline model in 2020 for any phone that costs above $600.
You might; I am still trying to figure out how to use my 32 GB…
It's either plenty, or very little. But no nice in between.
Ouch. Do most people really not use the power adapter?
Of course, the right thing to do here would be to drop the price of the phone by some token amount, like £10. Sure the environment benefit is real, but the real driving force is that Apple makes an extra 1% margin on every phone.
I think a minuscule number of people won’t mind this. For the rest, these phones are going to cost more than before with the additional purchase of adapters.
The pictures themselves are telling to. They are all weird, lower power poses. Could you imagine Tim Cook or another speaker striking a pose like that? This is how the executives like to be seen: https://www.apple.com/leadership/
Sadly it has come to the point where any criticism of diversity for any reason is sacrilegious, but people would be wise to think twice what the outcome of these policies is. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
iPhone 12 mini has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. iPhone 12 mini is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained.What exactly is 'safe' about this? It's just... mag.
All of this “net-zero” talk yet they have a system in place that makes it prohibitively expensive to repair slightly damaged devices (ie, bad battery) out of warranty. So, consumers are left to live with the problem, pay for the cost of the repair which ends up costing about 1/2 to 3/4 of a new phone, or just buy a new phone.
Of course, people could go to a third party repair facility, but Apple doesn’t provide these businesses with the replacement parts and software to fix their phones. In one case, the display hardware identifier is tied to the “True Tone” feature and changing the display will result in this feature not working. In another case, the TouchID is hardcoded to the device and can only be reset by Apple techs, otherwise the Touch ID feature no longer works.
I like Apple products in general, but this is one of the few cases where Apple can do better.
Also let's not forget about the 100k functional devices Apple sent to recycling and wanted to remove from the second-hand market.
https://9to5mac.com/2020/10/01/apple-catches-electronics-rec...
Seems like it started with the AirPods page and will likely continue.
Would much rather have a page that is as clean but less scroll effects.
But the whole 5G hype is lost on me. Specifically, none of the carriers or handset makers are telling me how much the data will cost. Maybe I'm a little price-focused, but that determines for me whether I'm excited about it.
If I'm just burning through my existing data limit faster, what's the point? What's the pricing of this new data capability?
Now if they could just work on the audio quality and latency over regular wire-line networks, that I would be interested in. LTE to LTE calls already sound great, so I think there are some upgrades to the wired side of things that are required (which the likes of Verizon never want to do because it is more expensive/a lower margin business than wireless so they neglect it and regulators don't hold their feet to the fire).
[Edit: found this benchmark from a month ago: https://www.tomsguide.com/features/5g-vs-4g] basically looks like Verizon delivers on the promised speeds, but it still isn't clear to me what the spatial distribution of the higher speeds looks like.
Too bad i recently dropped my 2016 SE and got the new SE which sucks..
Too bad. Nothing really compelling compared to my XS max, I'll give this year a pass.
To me (and I can afford this) it looks insane to sink that kind of money into a bloody phone.
I always understood that for a telephoto lens you wanted the f-stop number to be higher, so that the image is clearer since the subject is at a greater distance. My gut instinct is that the iphone XS/XR lens might capture a sharper initial image, but maybe the final product won't be as good as the newer lens do to all the processing being done by the phone? Perhaps a bigger diameter on the telephoto lens is better for night mode shooting, so more light is being captured? Hoping someone more knowledgeable than I can weigh in. :)
* The lack of a way to move Whatsapp messages between platforms. (They'd just need to allow Whatsapp to use Google Drive for backup on iOS)
* The lack of (physical) dual-SIM.
The “surgical steel” stuff always makes me curious - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_stainless_steel
There is no formal definition but we for some reason love to hear it.
In this case (no pun) I’ve left happy that my glass phone won’t also rust?
I remember reading it was building up to releasing a Tile-like product called AirTags for finding lost devices:
[Note: couldnt make it through the whole video, so just curious]
https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/apple/149336-how-app...
https://www.pocket-lint.com/gadgets/news/apple/149277-apple-...
I hope this new lidar sensor is quickly followed by real estate agents using it to create floorpans.
It basically boils down to a few relatively minor camera features perhaps except for the addition of a 2x camera (The other differences are Lidar sensor, 60fps HDR recording at vs 30fps, and saving in RAW).
It looks like they think that just creating the impression that the pro model is better is enough to get more money from people who are less price sensitive.
Looks like Apple will start a trend by manufacturers of not including power bricks with their devices.
Well, you're the only company making iPhones.
The Western world talk about distribution of wealth among the wealthiest and poorest people always tend to overlook how the people of the Western world of are of the first category and those in the later see no difference in a billionaire or other member of the same.
Not as small as I would like, but I’ll take what I can get. I’ve been clinging to my 5SE for years and they stopped allowing me to renew Apple care a couple of months ago. :/
“a phone that easily fits in the palm of your hand” is a phrase I legitimately scoffed at, what are phones if not handheld devices?
It's really annoying to loose the unlock with your face feature and go back to entering the code while outside.
The clear case ($50) looks kinda neat though, since third-party support for MagSafe may be sporadic: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MHLM3ZM/A/iphone-12-12-pr...
Did we just innovate ourselves all the way back to Magsafe that laptops (used to) have since 2006?
I assume the iphone is always magnetic, judging by the magsafe wallet?
On a more serious note: what technology advancements will there be in the next 10-20 years that actually make 5G technology useful?
It's looking like it was a battery issue all along, but once these magnetic chargers become common, that won't matter. It's perfect for mounting an iPhone in the car too.
I remember a few years ago my iPhone 7 screen shattered while in my pocket, and just 2 days after the 1 year warranty had ended. I've never been so mad as when the "Genius" assistant told me the metal frame just sometimes bent and caused the screen to break. Seems this couldn't happen with ceramic.
Now it's on smartphones.
Still, this is my iPhone wish list:
- USB-C
- 120hz display
- face id AND in screen touch id
- better wireless charging
- dump the notch
I wonder how much they paid Apple for this?
I had hopes for Touch ID comeback (IIRC Apple has a patent for fingerprint reader integrated in phone body or screen), but oh well.
[0] Although it was much better when power button was on the top—in all modern iPhones on/off can be easily mistaken for volume up/down by touch.
where is usb-c as in macbook pro(s) and ipad(s)
(Am I the only one who hates FaceID and feels like it was mostly a neat engineering problem to work on that doesn't actually suit the task as well as simple fingerprinting?)
Maybe someone will be eating crow tonight.
You know what I really want to see, more than any of this gitter and glam and a few features here and there? A real, actual campaign to reduce e-Waste. I way out of this bullshit, constant consumerism mess. How many more wars have to be fought, and people repressed, to continue the machine that gives us more machines?
Apple has so much money at this point. What are they even going to do with more? How about you do something that's actually innovative Apple: Officially open all the hardware specs, bootloader keys and what you can legally release of device drivers for iPhone 1-7. Maybe even contribute some code to get a DarwinBSD booting by itself on those devices; letting developers add on new layers.
How about something that will actually end the cycle of factory sludge, toxic waste and human toil that goes into each new generation of shiny new product.
I'm sick of these releases. Give me something fucking upgradable, fixable and usable. Give me something that's thicker and bulkier, but that I can take apart myself and fix.
I'm in the minority though. The rest of the planet is okay with this. Their advertising has made people even more okay with this, so they'll just keep selling us this crap, until we've extracted every last resource the Earth can give.
I personally think this is simply too much.
The screen, same deal. A fancy name for technology that's been around for a while. Nobody will really see the difference between the screen on an iPhone X and iPhone 12, but hey, it's a sales-talk.
Speaking of 5G, they're trying to sell us onto the idea that we need it. We are still dealing with relatively low bandwidth caps from our providers, and nobody in their right mind is going to use 4GB/s to do... anything. Do they expect us to willy-nilly download games of 4GB on the go or something?
5G is technology for the providers and their benefactors, not for us the comsumers.
On to the CPU. It's faster. Great. It was already industry-leading fast. I respect processing power as something amazing and I'll respect this improvement for what it is. Great job. Not too impressed because I wouldn't use it myself, but it's nice.
Then Touch ID, wow I'm so happy they reintroduced it last-minute during this pandemic where we all wear masks when out and about. What's that? They didn't include Touch ID? You mean their superior technology that is pretty damn amazing and convenient to serve NEXT TO Face ID isn't there even though they could have?
Yikes.
Well, at least the announced 120Hz for the Pro Max and 90Hz for the smaller Pro model was nice. Hm? They didn't do that either? Oh. They're still stuck on 60Hz while the competition is delivering phones for half the money doing all of the above since about a year ago?
Yikes.
MagSafe, though. Now that is quite nice! Not even kidding. They invented magnets at Apple, like, whoa I'm going to assume that the magnetic connection will allow you to charge the phone and ALSO transfer data! Wild assumption, huh?
The case with a spare pocket for the Apple Pencil was a nice touch, though, especially now the iPhone 12 supports it. That's also a lie. I'm lying. They did not do that.
At the very least they're good for nature and such. No more charger and earphones! As a result the price has gone down a whopping $300 across the field, with a respectful nod to the people who are struggling in these dire times.
That, too, was a lie. They did no such thing.
It's another iPhone X. Nothing new here.
If I'm just burning through my existing data limit faster, what's the point? What's the pricing of this new data capability?
Shame. I was hoping they would develop a completely washable phone due to corona.
Not entirely true , e.g. they can't play fortnite or other unreal-based games
Among Covid, uncertainty, and people moving, i m not sure it's the best time to present their most expensive phone, esp. now that comparable phones are half the price. 5G is exciting? hm most people use their phones in crappy wifi for years, plus it's not like apple built the 5G infrastrucutre. (plus there's noone to show off to at this time)
Seriously now, my last phone is SE. I am old apple user. I plan to buy cheap Android phone for Important apps. Actually Apple of now is what I don’t trust or like. I feel that this boring, politically correct, cunning corporation is exactly the opposite of the original Apple idea and ethos. This started years ago with whole Semi-Pro trend, but now is in a full swing, not listening of pro users, milking 30 percent everything, basically is a company for “fashion people” with polished marketing. My money are safe:)