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Comment by Waterluvian | Hacker News Reader

I’m not throwing shade but I’m genuinely curious what the infrastructure cost per user is when comparing Europe and US and Canada. Surely it might be part of the problem.

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Probably more down to limited competition in the US, honestly. Comparing costs across Western Europe, it’s hard to make the case that it’s an infrastructure cost problem; Germany (dense) is more expensive than Ireland (non-dense) which is more expensive than the UK (dense) which is more expensive than Finland (very non-dense).

Well there are multiple factor involve, so population density isn't always of the main concern. The main cost of infrastructure is actually the rent, of any land / property cost required for the Cell. In Countries where Mobile Network already owns the land for these Cell Site / Tower that were paid and amortised during the 2G / 3G / 4G era. They are now essentially free. In Cities, that depends on rent and property pricing, unless you have government mandate or directly involved like in China. It is also dependent on the fear level of radiation in the culture / nation. People will protest to get rid of Cell Site in their own area ( While at the same time demand their Mobile Phone to have perfect reception ). Which also drives up the cost of finding and setting up Cell Sites. ( Or they are willing to put up with the risk of radiation if you pay them more ).

Do you consider the cost of frequency bands a part of infrastructure costs, or is that separate?

https://www.dw.com/en/fnord/a-49168657 was the top hit just now when I searched for 5G auctions. I've no idea how much telcos pay in other countries, but the top six hits for my search were all about Germany, which at least doesn't suggest that Finland is raking in record sums from its auctions.

It's probably not a big factor. If we look at last time round, Ireland, a country of 5 million people, got 450 million in the LTE spectrum auction. Germany, a country of 83 million people, got 5.1 billion. So per capita the Irish spectrum was almost twice as expensive as the German spectrum, and yet mobile data is generally cheaper in Ireland (despite lower density, generally higher labour costs, and other factors that would lead you to expect it would be more expensive in Ireland if cost of data was actually determined by input costs).

When it comes to it, 6.5bn _sounds_ like a lot, but it's only 78 euro per capita, and that's buying the telcos permanent assets which will be useful for decades to come.

Thanks. Yeah that does sound plausible. Canada suffers from anticompetition too.

Maybe it used to be? I don't know, but not anymore. Mint Mobile will get you unlimited talk/text and 3GB data for $15/month, no extra fees. They're an MVNO using T-Mobile's network. If T-Mobile can make money wholesaling their network to Mint, and Mint can make money selling plans at that price, there's no reason for a "normal" plan to run $70 before taxes and fees. Even Mint's unlimited plan is only $30, less than half of what TMobile has.

Typically the catch with MVNOs (and prepaid products under the main brand) is that they don't roam; you get only one operator's towers. In urban areas this is not a big deal but if you like road trips it can matter.

The US does have higher labor costs than most of Europe, but lax regulation of special access service (backhaul) is probably more of a factor.

huh? What's your source?

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