Hacker News Reader

Comment by la6471 | Hacker News Reader

No that is short term outlook. You need to look long term. But I agree the pain of losing a job is real and that’s where UBI comes in. UBI (Universal basic income) is a must because job losses are inevitable wether due to automation / offshoring / health issues or skill shortage. Where will the money from UBI come from? From the companies that profit because of these mechanisms. Tax them , tax the ultra rich folks. If humanity has to continue its progress in the current path this has to be the future. If you have an alternative in mind please share.

View on HN

more great logic - we need to outsource jobs so the companies can earn a higher profit to pay UBI to the citizens they displaced.

This is the equivalent of a ponzi scheme if you think about it - unsustainable.

US is a country, not a company - citizens are non-voluntary members - some of them have ancestors that served and died to make it what it is. US did not magically become an epicenter of innovation where Google could be created, it took the whole history of the country to get to this point.

If "more efficient economies" were about to take over, people would stay home. folks continue to come to the US because it is still best here.

some of the "more efficient economies" come from are growing by widescale industrial espionage, made easier by lax controls on intellectual property. People still come here.

Other emerging economies have almost intractable demographic issues that only so much hope can address.

The US would be well served to not blindly repeat the mistakes of other countries for the sake of short term economic gain.

So to your first point you need to understand I am not taking about “needing” to outsource/offshoring to provide UBI to citizens. No, “offShoring” is “needed” by companies to be more efficient and profitable. It is a business decision. That is inevitable if US companies wants to stay competitive in the global market. If not outsourcing or offshoring there WILL be automation as time goes on and many skills will become older or stale. This is also inevitable. If you deny these trends you are living under a rock really. Now in your answer I do sense some frustrations around demographic changes , which is also real , but again that kind of thinking leads to stereotyping biases and sometimes making the wrong judgement, which I think we can all do without and definitely the United States constitution does not prescribe classes of citizens based on ancestry. But to all the other issues UBI is the answer not stopping the profitability of companies.

Secondly the fact is most of the developed countries run on successful immigration policies. Countries like Japan which did not encourage immigration until recently had a stagnating economy for a very long time. Only recently they are loosening up immigration to help boost the economy. In fact the reason USA is a great place to come and work for many SKILLED immigrants is that immigrants has contributed greatly in the last three decades and helpers US companies to dominate in the global competition and increase their profit to stellar levels. Look at any of the global hi tech companies from IBM to Microsoft and you will see immigrants holding not only back office roles but also holding all kinds of positions from middle managers to being CEOs. Do you think these companies could have been so successful without the contribution of the immigrant communities? These companies success are America’s recent success and let us not deny this fact or take steps that will kill this glorious fountain of prosperity and innovation.

Japan is a country that values its citizens over its companies, i think Japanese tend to like it the way it is, and there's a lesson there if you think about it carefully.

I think easy case to make IBM is dying on the back of becoming an outsourcing company. IBM, once a feared titan of global tech, is basically a joke, it's leading tech is a recent acquisition (RHEL).

America in the 100 year view - what was the society that led to the founding of HP, IBM, microsoft, google, apple? that's the secret sauce we need to cultivate, and of course immigrants are part of it, but the current culture around H1B is another story.

reading between the lines, i see the pride in your response of the new CEOs of some of these tech behemoths -

as an engineer who is bad at politics - i know this to be true - getting to the top of a big mature organization is nothing like starting one, totally different skillset.

not to say these folks aren't extremely smart cookies, but it's a different ballgame being played.

Well in the long run you need both builders and operators to succeed. In today’s world Everybody ( I mean everybody individually not any race religion etc) brings their own strength to the game , unitedly we should harness them take care of each other and not become more divisive and blinded in the process.

"If "more efficient economies" were about to take over, people would stay home"

Nazi germany was literally taking over, and people were not staying home! Its an extreme example, but the argument is a non-sequitor.

Like my family left Russia (not for US) bevause they wanted less crime, better healthcare, and they lost a lot if financiall opportunity in the process.

"lax controls on intellectual property" - Our IP laws mean I buy a phone and have no right to know what software its running, what it's doing while i am asleep, if it has security flaws, etc.

Also copyright lasts how many decades after author's death?

How many patents were given for 'slide to unlock' and 'shopping cart'?

If i lived in a developing country, i would absolutely want my government to have super lax IP laws, first so that we can catch up, and then so that a more sane set of laws can evolve.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com