Comment by bobokanta | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bobokanta | Hacker News Reader

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When we hear the word caste, we think of India, of poverty, inequality, and discrimination. But caste is a European non translatable, from Spanish-Portuguese "Casta". Racial purity or limpieza de sangre was at the root of this system.

When Europeans colonised the Americas 500 years ago, they established a casta system in Mexico. France had three castes - nobility, clergy, and peasants. This unjust system came to and end with the French revolution. The Dutch established a caste system in Sri Lanka. After colonising Philipines, Spain started a caste system there. The unehrliche Leute were the outcastes of Germany, the latrine cleaners, skinners and grave diggers.

England had four castes - king, nobles, knights and peasants. Gongfermours, the toilet cleaners were outcastes in London. The Romanis were outcastes for thousand years.

Caste is quintessentially European.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48619734

Rest assured, nobody is thinking of the Spanish-Portuguese casta system when they talk about Indian caste. We might use the same word but I don't think anyone is familiar enough with the Spanish usage in the Americas for it to bring about a misunderstanding. But you make a very good point.

For non Spanish speakers or people not familiar with the Spanish casta system, it's synonymous with breed and lineage. Before the "Conquista", the lineage was focused on nobility Vs peasants. During the conquista, it shifted to a racial pecking order. The idea that the Spanish casta (castizo) was at the top of the pyramid, and any mixtures with other races put you at different levels in that pyramid. For instance a white castizo mixed with a black person would be mulato, but a white non-castizo like a Dutch or English white mixed with a black would give you a lower but similar caste. Your caste had implications in social and political life -- access to property, being able to hold certain jobs, etc. It quickly became unworkable because of the ever growing degrees of "mestizaje".

I don't know if India has a similar idea (what caste are you when a dalit mixes with a Brahmin?), but as you've mentioned, it's worth noting that the word we use for the Indian Varna does come a Spanish word (which in turn probably has Nordic roots) for a very different race/lineage based caste system.

The caste system in what is now India is entirely of their own making.

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