Comment by tialaramex | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tialaramex | Hacker News Reader

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It's completely crazy that most of the US uses paid bail. That can't be a good idea. On the other hand, it is true that when bailed some fraction of defendants won't show up.

I live in an English city and once in a while (when there was not a pandemic) I would walk into the city centre and attend some trials in one of our courts.

The last session in Magistrate's court most weeks is people who were supposed to be there for an earlier session and didn't show. So how are they there now? Well when they don't show the court orders police to arrest them, they get arrested and then to guarantee they appear they're sent to the cells until their case is called. Most of them look pretty sheepish. We are not talking about criminal masterminds here. You have a 10am court appearance, Police knock on the door at 2pm, your mum lets them in, they arrest you. Oh, shit, that was today? Oh, your phone has fifty messages from your lawyer asking where the fuck you are. Oops.

So this makes me think the most valuable tool for this problem would be a way to get defendants to actually do the introspection when a court asks them: Can we trust you to show up on this date and this time? Can they? Or are you just hopeless and it would actually be better to just imprison you a day or two before so that you're available?

I recommend reading stories of the law. It’ll tell you a plethora of reasons why people fail to turn up for court. Often as a result of an overstretched and massively underfunded CPS. Well worth a read - https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/The-Secret-Barrister/The-Secr...

Not everyone gets bail. Releasing defendants without bail is called release on "own recognizance". It depends on how severe the crime and how likely they think you are to run. Keep in mind criminal law is handled at the state level, so historically it was really hard to catch people who just moved to another state. Bail pays for people like "bounty hunters" to go find you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail_bondsman?wprov=sfti1

"Oops?" Is it only in the US that some people are actual bad guys that run from the law?

I was talking about a Magistrate's Court, so when you say "actual bad guys" we're talking like, maybe a drink driver? Knocked somebody's tooth out in a bar fight? A year of unpaid parking fines? Shoplifted a frozen turkey?

I'm not suggesting we throw these people a celebratory party, but they're no Ted Bundy or Buster Edwards. Most of them would - if they had woken up on the right day and showed something resembling remorse for whatever they did - never have seen the inside of a jail cell. They'd have been given a fine or some type of "community pay back" type sentence like they have to clean graffiti off walls or pick litter from the side of a road, and told not to get into trouble again. Some of them won't. Some will.

Crown Courts deal with more serious offences, and obviously if it's alleged you are a real danger, that you will most likely offend seriously again if released, or you have means and motive to flee, they'll just imprison you "on remand".

But there isn't this business of "Oh well we'll just assume everybody is a flight risk and demand piles of cash for their release" which is just obviously corrupt.

Bail doesn’t stop people from running. If you’re facing the the death penalty or life in prison losing a large sum of money isn’t going to stop you. So, the issue is what does it stop?

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