Comment by neckardt | Hacker News Reader

Comment by neckardt | Hacker News Reader

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As someone in the US who has DSPD [0] and uses melatonin daily, I personally wish it was a prescription medication. There are a few reasons for this:

1) The proper dose of melatonin for me is somewhere between 150ug and 400ug, but most melatonin sold comes in 3mg to 10mg pills. That's around 10x too much, taking that dosage of melatonin destroys my sleep schedule. It takes a lot of hunting to find the right dose. I tried once to crush up some melatonin and make my own pills with a precise dosage, but that ended up being a bit of a disaster.

2) Melatonin is regulated as a supplement in the US. Basically that means there is no regulation and even the active ingredient can vary wildly in a pill. When I visited a sleep specialist they mentioned to always buy the same brand, because "Each supplier has a different incorrect dosage, your best bet for dialing in on the correct dosage and timing is hoping that they're at least consistent among themselves".

But I do agree with you, regulating it as a prescription medication would do more harm than good for most people. I wish there were some middle ground that would both solve the above issues but still keep it easily available for people who rely on it.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

Wow, I never knew that there was a medical diagnosis for being a night owl. Without external forces, my sleep schedule would naturally drift until I am going to bed ~4AM-6AM. Melatonin has been a great help in making sure I get enough sleep so I can work regular hours. Like you, I've found that a small dose is sufficient. I take a quarter of a 3mg pill.

In fact there's evidence of four chronotypes! I, myself, am a napper: :)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01918...

Same here. During lockdown, my sleep schedule actually drifted a full circle around the clock.

Without the daily commute the same thing happened to me except its become more like two cycles of eight hours of activity followed by four hours of rest. I used to do the same thing in college - maybe that is my natural rhythm.

I have a similar thing going since a few years. Go to work for 8 hours. Come home and sleep on the couch for 3 to 4 hours, followed by another 4 to 6 hour period of hacking. I feel like I totally understand the concept of fiesta since I started this routine. However, during lockdown, as you have already indicated, things started to drift because of the lack of commute, or in my case, because of the lack of the 5 minute walk to work.

TL;DR: Yeah, powernapping is a thing.

If you don't mind, at what time of day do you take it?

It's been tough nailing down the optimal time, but right now what works best is taking 300ug of melatonin at 10:20pm and falling asleep at 11:50.

In the past I tried various different times ranging from 6:30pm to 9:00pm. Even taking it at a suboptimal time is better than not taking it at all.

There are also a few other things I do to keep my sleep schedule on track:

1) I heavily use bluelight filters on my computers and phone in the evening. Redshift/gammastep on Linux gives me full control.

2) I have low blue light lights which I use in the evening [0], then I switch to fully red bulbs in the hour before going to sleep.

3) I have a super bright daylight LED lamp which turns on automatically at 8:30am, a few minutes before I wake up. This is my solution to automate light therapy [1].

All of this combined lets me function mostly like a normal person. Hope some of that helps.

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2000k+bulb

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_therapy

Great, thank you very much.

I can't find the link right now, but I recall reading from a credible source that melatonin works two ways (from memory so may not be completely accurate):

* Adjusting diurnal rhythm (e.g. adjust a skewed sleeping schedule, jet lag). This works in lower doses over longer periods of time. So if you want to be less of a night owl, you may take 0.1-0.3 mg in the afternoon.

* Hypnotic - immediately making you more prone to fall asleep. This one is less well understood and dosages vary per person but it seems like 0.3-3 mg shortly before bed time is optimal. It also won't work on it's own like stilnoct or whatnot, so limiting light exposure, and all the other usuals, still apply.

I also find it frustrating how much more expensive and less available lower dosages are. From someone who also does bits and nibbles of 3mg pills.

For me, when I take melatonin, I feel sleepy within about half an hour, and if I don't go to sleep then, the sleepiness will pass and the melatonin would be ineffective. So I take it about half an hour before bedtime so that I am in bed within the effectiveness window.

Still a bit too much, at 500ug, but I’ve found the Trader Joe’s pills to work well, and are large and chewable, so should be relatively easy to divide.

FYI Nootripicsdepot standardises melatonin at 300ug if ur interested

Liquid melatonin is easier to get a ballpark dose in the 150-400ug range, since you can use single drops from the dropper.

if its water soluble, even better as you can put one drop in a glass of water and drink a quarter of that

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