Comment by manquer | Hacker News Reader

Comment by manquer | Hacker News Reader

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During 1970's time frame that OP is talking about, it is largely the effect of thousands of years caste based discrimination that denied education and basic rights for a big chunk of the population.

Today it is problem of economics.

Coconut trees typically grow in state of Kerala, a lot of the population there work in the Middle East oil economies , the pay is considerably better there. Paying competitively does not make enough money to be worth the effort.

Coconuts outside the big cities event today are dirt cheap you can get a dozen for something like $1.

Kerala is not easy place to be a immigrant, It is big semi urban region - think like American suburbs. There are hardly any cities where immigrants can get affordable housing, this is because lot of the money the state makes comes from remittances from middle east, they don't feel the need to migrate to the city for better jobs.

In recent times there has been some immigration into the state from North Eastern part of India especially in the food and construction sectors - housing is on-site or the restaurant is in the city.

Education statistics were compiled in the British era, and these were referenced by Dharampal in his book 'The Beautiful Tree' which records the extensive education present in South India. Like a lot of claims, this doesnt stand up.

Nor does the claim of 'caste system started in colonial era' make sense.

Aside: For people interested in learning more about what I am talking about, read up Nicholas Dirks, Balagangadhara or Jalki, Pathan.

In short, hierarchies existed between different groups in India, but these do not follow a 'ancient thousand year old varna system'. For instance, Majority of the kings(and dominant land owning jatis to this day) are not Kshatriyas,(nor Brahmins or Vaishya) who were initiated into thread ceremony. This includes famous Hindu kings like Vijayangara era Hakka/Bukka who came from shepherd jatis.

Lol , even today basic literacy is in the 70th percentile.

I can count in fingers how many from my village in south india from my grandfathers generation went to school or could read/write.

The reason congress first lost power in tamil nadu was partly because of caste based education proposed by rajagopalachari. Mid day meal program was pivotal in MGR's continued popularity . Education has always been key factor in politics since at least independence.

Sure there were exceptions and few kings could seize power with support from their powerful communities . They still remained illiterate though.

Education was only given to favoured few. Only few had access to God. A king could perhaps come from some random caste never the priest. he still comes from brahmins. Access to God and education was and still is weaponized to discriminate

The discrimination against women is the same, sure there were rare exceptions for women queens with power. never a single priest though.

If you want to read more about this, please look at the 11th chapter of James Tooley's book https://www.amazon.in/Beautiful-Tree-James-Tooley/dp/0670083... on "the uprooting of the Beautiful Tree". Tooley was researching low cost private schools in different parts of Asia and Africa.

He follows up the references in Dharampal in British Home Office records, which catalog the reports sent on native education by collectors to the governor Thomas Munro (including 'caste' statistics).

Tooley also read the work of Andrew Bell, on how mass education in Britain and later Europe was strongly influenced by what Rev Andrew Bell(who had come to Madras to manage a school) learnt about the methods of peer learning in native schools in Madras.

Dharampal's book is available online for free, and Arvind Neelakantan has a review of Tooley's book.

Some other disagreements, its not just 'few kings' but majority. The 'priest' claim is also not true. Majority of the mathas in say Karnatak and TN are run by non-brahmins, and there are plenty of pujaris from other jatis, not that that is a position of social privilege given how poorly paid they are and difficulty in getting married.

>Coconuts outside the big cities event today are dirt cheap you can get a dozen for something like $1

Nah. Even in most rural places, coconuts are now priced at around 50 cents each.

While a retail price of Rs 40 (50 cents) is possible it is not the norm and is considered expensive even in a big city like bangalore.

The price flucatates and does drop below Rs 10 and even Rs 5 . Here the coconut board link [1] for wholesale prices.

I have personally traded with farms at Rs 5-6 range 3 years back in 2016.

[1] https://coconutboard.in/priceweb/Reports.aspx

Today I can see vendors quoting 10 per on some mundis.

so are you saying india was economically flourishing in the 1970s and today suddenly there is poverty that you would not pay the tree climber? how much did you make in the 1970s selling coconuts? Re 1? equivalent to 1/50th on the US dollar?

Huh? I said today there are better jobs abroad what has that do with poverty ? . It doesn't matter how rich or poor the farmer is. If coconuts sell at some price and he has to compete with middle eastern job market he won't pay if he cant get returns on his efforts.

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