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Comment by rorykoehler | Hacker News Reader

I'm not sure Starbucks would erode a places coffee culture, even in Seattle. If anything it would expand the pool of potential customers. I love and drink a lot of gourmet coffee/beans. I also visit Starbucks on occasion. I never go to Starbucks specifically for their coffee though, unless there is no good local cafe in the area. Starbucks is a lightweight coworking space / 3rd space at this stage.

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Their predatory business practice killed a lot of local cafes. Places that were funky, cool, focused on their product and had a loyal base of locals but were kept afloat by tourists and other passersby who wouldn't cross a street, or just fell for brand recognition. They'd set up shop across the street or around the corner, and operate at a loss until they drove the locals off.

I'm loathe to admit that starbucks quality has gone up a bit lately, but even today their standard pull is burnt to hell in the name of homogeneity. So yeah, they dealt a huge blow to Seattle's (and many other cities) local cafes, and replaced them with a sanitized lack of culture.

For sure what you said happened however I’d argue it’s not a problem in places with legit coffee culture. Australia, Berlin, London to name a few places I’m intimately familiar with. Singapore on the other hand it most definitely is but that is a good reflection of the city tbh.

I'm from Singapore, and would fight you on your claim that Starbucks killed the local coffee culture. We have our own coffee culture, historically in the hawker centres, and it's most definitely still striving. Beyond that, there are tons of third wave coffee cafes that arrived in the past decade, mainly because of Australian influence. They're just not located at the shopping malls due to rental, where Starbucks and its ilk dominate.

Yes sorry I was comparing like for like and not kopi. I do love Singaporean hawker coffee culture. I’m going by experience from living in the heartland for a few years where the only 2 western cafes are coffee bean and Starbucks. They leave no space for a local alternative.

Definitely really good western café’s in Singapore too. Ronin is prob my favourite..... looks like they had to close :(

> in places with legit coffee culture

What about places with a newly-growing coffee culture?

What about places with a coffee culture whose strength is starting to temporarily weaken?

What about places which occasionally undergo change?

Yes there definitely is a case to be made. It’s more a criticism of capitalism imo

I agree, and I suspect Starbucks had other problems even in cities without much of a specialty or creative coffee culture (so, excluding London, Berlin, Melbourne, and I would add SF and a few others here).

For instance, many cities in southern and perhaps central Europe seem to have local cafes that don't do anything "special" with their coffee (what's a Chemex?) besides just existing as a local institution for decades with a consistent experience in quality and pricing, and that's something that I expect is very difficult for Starbucks or any foreign player to break into regardless of the quality or international popularity of the brand.

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