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Comment by person_of_color | Hacker News Reader

No. Because tech blogs and forums like HN/Blind constantly make me feel I'm getting underpaid.

If it's any consolation, I'm from Northern California and moved to Europe.

After a few years my wife and I thought "let's go back to California" so I could try a startup. After a year we went back to the EU because ultimately we realized there was no way we wanted to have a family in America.

In the EU, even people who don't work in tech can have real vacations (most people in the US can't, really) and access healthcare to a reasonable standard.

During recent elections, I didn't go to bed fearing that the country wouldn't be a democracy in the morning (helps we're not in Poland or Hungary)

And frankly, I like that when I chat with the person behind the counter at the chip shop I don't have to be quite so embarrassed at my riches compared to them. In the states I felt awkward as hell basically saying "yeah we're heading to (some exotic locale) for a few weeks, got any travel coming up?" to people who had no PTO and nowhere near the income needed to do similar and, most worryingly, little prospect of change (class mobility in the US is lower than Europe). I'm not saying that inequality isn't a problem in Europe but it rots your psyche just a bit less here.

Also, if the devs are cheap and the social safety net strong, it's a lot less risky to start your own company.

>During recent elections, I didn't go to bed fearing that the country wouldn't be a democracy in the morning (helps we're not in Poland or Hungary)

As a Pole, man that comment hurt me

I'm really sorry. It's painful to see what's happening to Poland and Hungary with regards to democracy. My old boss was from Poland and he talked about it a lot. Though he did end up returning since he wanted to be near family, and Polish housing costs are far lower. I'd still love to visit.

If you're living in Europe then that's something that you just need to accept, the pay is nowhere near anywhere the pay in the US, I think in my country it caps at something like 60k$ per year and that's if you're really good at what you're doing.

I recently came to the same conclusion, but also realised that there is a lot more to it than just pay. Generalising here but switching for a similar role in the US will mean:

* No more free healthcare

* Much less PTO

* _Significantly_ less parental leave for you and your partner

* Less pension/401k contributions (typically)

* Generally longer hours and a more intense working culture

* Probably a higher cost of living

Depending on your new salary you may find that these downsides are offset by more cash in hand, which is great, but it is definitely not a one way street.

Also no social safety nets, assuming you're moving from somewhere with safety nets. Where I live, I always know that if things get too bad I will always have enough to eat, and the ability to get medical care.

Finally someone points this out :D

Even within one country, where you live can make a huge difference in terms of how much rent you pay, whether you can get by without a car, etc.

If you get paid a lot but most of it goes directly to your landlord, you're not really any better off than someone who makes a bit less but keeps more of it.

The architecture, politics, arts, demographics, culture, and small talk are different too. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing depends on how you feel about each of these things, and what you make of your experience. If you have children, note that the education system is different too.

While this is true, you also need to be aware of the pay ranges available in your country. A few years ago I felt underpaid, people younger than me were earning more, self-employed people that took two weeks to come up with a screen with some text and a button that didn't work showed up to the office in a Maserati, things like that.

My then-employer did compensate though; I got a double pay raise because of performance, and another raise on top (for a lot of people in the company) because they realized they were behind on market rates.

But now I feel like I'm at the top end; there will be some growth but nothing dramatic. To gain more, I need to either shift to a managerial role (and I suspect that if I stick with this job I'll slowly grow into that while the company grows), work for more desperate companies (but that'll increase my commute), US startups with bases in my country (but that'll involve US working culture and timezones), or go self-employed.

Comparison is the thief of joy. You're doing phenomenally, and nobody can take that away from you.

I know the feeling.. found out recently that someone in my team is on a good 80k more than me!

No one is going to pay you more unless they think you're valuable and you're departure is a credible possibility.

I know it's a lot of work, but the best strategy is to interview for jobs consistently and regularly, regardless of whether you are happy with your current job. Shop around your offers, get companies to fight over you. Use all the leverage you have. You don't get more money without demanding it.

Power and money are never given, they are only taken.

At my 2nd full-time job, starting as a junior in a team, I got a higher starting salary than what I was comfortable asking at the interview, plus got a yearly 10% salary increase for the next 5+ years. When I left the company I still got invited to the Christmas party, even though I was no longer working for them. Also, the local managing director grew out from being a developer 15+ years prior (in the same company), and new all his 300+ employees by name. There are always exceptions to a rule.

Amen to this.

Paradoxically, the BEST time to job hunt and negotiate is when you're in a job you really like.

This sucks, of course, for all sorts of reasons, but it's amazing how much "Actually I really like my current job, so you'd need to pay (some big number) to get me to move" will sway people more than "well I think market rate is about X"

This is good knowledge. You probably can't say you know directly. But build a case for asking for more and you now know an upper limit (you can even go a bit higher). Try to find a local salary survey, that can be very helpful. Good Luck :)

Excellent! That makes asking for a raise much easier!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16574650

It's even worse when your friends tell you that you're underpaid and should seek new employment when you are struggling to find open jobs or get past the HR people.

I was really underpaid for the first 5 years of my career. But I tried not to worry about it too much because I was making enough to pay the bills, and generally enjoyed the work and the people.

It turned out that those relationships I built in those first 5 years were very valuable. I haven't applied for a single job since then, and instead have relied on referrals from colleagues at previous companies - which completely changes the interview process and gives you a much better bargaining position negotiating for a job.

Of course I think people should always be on the lookout for new opportunities, and take them when they come along. But I think even more importantly if you are looking to grow your career is to make sure you are doing a good job at your current gig, making a good impression on people, and continuing to challenge yourself and expand your skills. If you can do that, then hopefully the opportunities will find you instead of the other way around.

It sucks to feel that way. It might not be as bad as you think it is: I expect those earning more will more eager to note what they are.

If you are underpaid, then you should be able to easily find a company that pays you more, no?

There's no "easy" to the tech interview process

That hasn't been my experience, but the point is that if you can't convince someone to pay you more for similar work, then you're not underpaid. It's not about value, or how hard you work, or whatever. It's about how much money you can convince someone to pay you. That's the only thing that matters.

This is true, and which is why I have learnt you need at least two offers before switching jobs.

I'm only 6 months into a job.

It should be a year before you leave. Right?

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