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Comment by samatman | Hacker News Reader

I look forward to Epic's next set of suits against Sony and Microsoft, who offer basically identical terms for inclusion on the app platforms for Playstation and Xbox, respectively.

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Yes. While I disagree with how Apple words, value and treat developers. Along with some of its guideline such as not allowing Apps with Search function that could return Website with COVID 19 information, I felt Epic is picking the wrong battle to fight.

If it was Spotify or some other productivity apps like MS office it would have been better. But Gaming.....

Do those platforms prevent you from directing people to your own website or payment system for IAP or forbid you from mentioning the fees associated?

I haven’t bought any IAPs for a console, so I’m not sure.

Actually in console world it's exactly the same, see [1]. Sony even pockets the same fee - 30 percent - off every DLC transaction.

[1] https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/08/playstation_makes_mo...

Good to know. I’ll take your word for it that it’s the same, but the article doesn’t say that Sony forbids using your oven payment processor.

Yeah, I saw this counter argument before, and I wonder the same thing, but does intellectual consistency matter much in the court of law?

In this case it doesn't really, in general it does.

You aren't obligated to sue everyone breaking the law just because you sued one person that did, which seems to be the sum of the "but Xbox and playstation" argument. In that sense, literally not at all.

Intellectual consistency does matter in the sense that courts will... heavily frown upon... you arguing X in one case and not X in another. But that hasn't happened here.

I fully expect the court to ask the question though.

"Is there any difference between Apple and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo?" is a logical sequitur to "what's your market?" and "who holds the power?".

Epic might say yes, they might say no. Either way, I'm interested to hear the reasoning.

It does if you’re about to declare things that have existed for decades with no problem as suddenly Anticompetitive or illegal.

Things literally do go from fine to anti-competitive or illegal over time, because context matters and both laws and circumstances change.

In one case, the US fought a whole war over something that was previously legal for decades!

This is true, but do people really think it’s the end of history for personal computing and that iOS and Android are the endgame such that they should be regulated like energy utilities?

The lack of entrepreneurial imagination is astounding. VR and AR are coming, Facebook and Valve are poised to be the next kings of tech. The current era of Apple and Google has an obvious time limit.

Given how many companies Apple has acquired over the last few years pretty sure they are much further ahead in the AR/VR space than Facebook/Valve.

They just have a tendency to keep things under wraps until the big reveal.

Courts have broad discretion to conduct the course of lawsuits.

In this case, I fully expect the judges to ask some hard questions about why Epic seems so content with the consoles, while taking a bold stand for freedom on mobile, and only mobile.

I'll be up in the virtual peanut gallery munching popcorn the whole time. It's gonna be a ride.

Microsoft allows installing unsigned games on the Xbox and neither are marketing their devices as a PC.

Good luck doing that with XDK games.

UWP games on XBOX are for indies, or to sell game idea concepts to Microsoft, as means to get an invitation to the big boys club.

I look forward to hearing an argument about how game consoles are nearly as important to society or as ubiquitous, as smart phones.

Ticketmaster for concerts

Scientific journals

Vehicle firmware and apps

The list goes on.

Apple’s policies aren’t monopoly by any historic definition: it’s complaining about commission rates, not about blocking market access, since you always can just pick a different platform.

Unless iOS and Android needs to be declared a public utility.

I think you gave very good examples. For me, Ticketmaster and scientific journals abuse their position and there should be laws to prevent that.

I have no problem with new laws to address this behavior.

My disagreement is with the belief that existing anticompetitive laws apply to this situation.

Apple has at least 50% of the market in the USA. They have 90% of the youth market so the general market share just keeps growing.

You can't have a successful app business without putting your offering in Apple's app store.

Our existing anti-trust laws absolutely apply here.

OK, maybe absolutely is a bit strong. IANAL :)

Who knows... we'll see I guess. I don't think Epic will win, but I hope something changes because I just really want to put my own app on my own phone and help my customers do the same.

> I look forward to hearing an argument about how game consoles are nearly as important to society or as ubiquitous, as smart phones.

I look forward to hearing an argument about how iPhones == all smart phones, or why the millions of users (including developer) who love the single-curator nature of iOS should be forcibly deprived of that.

(Sorry for the snark, just continuing the mimicry chain)

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