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Comment by ceejayoz | Hacker News Reader

> There's absolutely no reason for not making user-replaceable batteries other than planned obsolescence…

Sure there is. Battery bays are a source of water intrusion.

Somehow, I have never caused any kind of liquid damage to any electronics I've ever owned. IMO, waterproofing is overrated — especially with capacitive touchscreens that refuse to work with as much as some raindrops on them.

> Somehow, I have never caused any kind of liquid damage to any electronics I've ever owned.

It wasn't until recently that the general public would be carrying around an electronic device 24/7, including in such common situations as: sitting in the bathtub, holding the device around a toilet, using the device on a pier over water, etc. Waterproofing as standard has definitely saved myriad people from having to buy a new phone or ebook reader.

See, everyone is different. My phone never comes close enough to my bathroom to end up in the toilet or the bathtub.

It shouldn't be this all-or-nothing approach. We need choice and diversity in these markets. Same applies to screen sizes, btw — everyone's different, some people do watch video on their phone, some are disgusted by the very idea of it.

> It shouldn't be this all-or-nothing approach

I dont understand your point, so you want companies to build two types of devices, one which is not water resistant/proof but can be easily repaired and another device which is water resistant but hard to repair?

He wants a diverse market with options. Not 3 companies telling you what to do.

There are lots of companies manufacturing phones not just 3.

Yes but there's not much diversity in the phones themselves. Whichever company you choose, you're most likely getting an impenetrable giant glass slab.

> Whichever company you choose, you're most likely getting an impenetrable giant glass slab.

Which is probably a good indication that the market for other styles of devices is quite small, right?

> Yes but there's not much diversity in the phones themselves.

There used to lots of diversity but after the Iphone the market wants an impenetrable giant glass slab.

> It shouldn't be this all-or-nothing approach.

Agreed. It's shame that all Android device manufacturers similar devices.

>> common situations as: sitting in the bathtub

What? ...what?!

Please tell me you're kidding. I would never, nor do I know anyone who would ever - be so shockingly daft as to use a phone or tablet in the bathtub. Come on. Even if it was 'waterproof', I still would be too paranoid to see it as a shocking hazard...we learn as kids not to put electronics in the bath; at least everyone I know did...

On the toilet, all the time. In the bathtub?! Let's give human beings some credit. We're not daft.

Waterproofing is ideally for the time you accidentally drop your phone into the toilet, and that alone. Just because it's gotten really great doesn't mean people's attitudes on this has suddenly changed.

Electronics and water don't mix. I can't imagine sitting in the bathtub with an iPhone, iPad or laptop. Nor could I imagine anyone I know doing so. o.o

Unless it's plugged in to charge, or otherwise hooked up to something with a cable, it should be safe to use your phone in the bathtub. Though, I'm not condoning this life choice.

Amazon knows that people read in the bathtub and want to continue doing so in the age of ebooks, which is one of the main reasons why recent Kindle generations are advertised as waterproof. You misunderstand the risk involved; a sealed low-voltage device is not a toaster connected to the mains.

Live a little. One of the great ways to relax in life is reading hacker news in a warm tub of water. Instead of mocking it you should try it. Of course most tubs are not big enough for adults so this isn't easy.

People use their phones as social devices, maps, and cameras.

The probability of spilling a drink on them, being out in the rain, or dropping them in a puddle is pretty high. That probability goes up the more a person is outside.

I've never dropped my phone in a bucket of water, but it's definitely gotten absolutely soaked in my pockets when rain suddenly hit or when a faucet in a public bathroom had its pressure set too high and sprayed me like a hose. I've lost a few keyboards to drips of condensation from my cup falling on just a single key, and I'd hate to have my other electronics be that sensitive.

I’ve never needed car airbags, but it’s good they’re there. I have dropped a phone in a toilet.

Hmm, I just realised the same thing - in almost 20 years of owning mobile electronic devices, I've never once had water damage to a device. I don't use electronics in the bath, shower, on the toilet or anything else random.

Strangely, when I last bought a mobile phone I made sure it had waterproofing... I guess marketing won here, since it's not something I actually need.

> since it's not something I actually need.

Its like insurance, you almost never use it but when things go wrong you are glad you have it.

> I've never once had water damage to a device.

Its both, your conscious effort not to take the phone where there is higher risk of water damage and its also luck that your child/friend/colleague did not accidentally spill water on it.

You’ve never dropped a phone into a toilet? I’ve done it at least a half dozen times.

It’s disgusting but I’m not tossing my phone away afterwards, UNLESS IT STOPS WORKING BECAUSE OF WATER FANSGE.

> You’ve never dropped a phone into a toilet?

No and every time this comes up I'm having trouble imagining how exactly, physically, could that happen by accident.

I had shorts with pockets that made it feel like the phone was put away, but when I stood up they would catch the phone and tumble out.

A shirt pocket. I've dropped a phone in the toilet twice and in a bathtub once this way - it slipped out of the pocket as I was bending to wash my hands or pick up the toilet cleaning brush.

(I've since then stopped carrying anything in open pockets above the waist.)

Sit on a toilet and hold a phone up near your face (not over the front of the toilet). It’s easy to see in this situation how a slippery phone or sweaty palms could cause the phone to fall down and between your thighs.

Solution: Think some "shower thoughts" during your bathroom break.

Not OP, but just a data point, Only once in my 30+ years of life I have dropped my key ring into a toilet, a squat one, so unrecoverable. Otherwise 20+ years of squat & 10+ years of western toilet use, never ever anything has fallen from my hands or pockets into toilet.

Casio solved that problem 40 years ago with 4 screws and a rubberband. It is what it is, the same with soldered ram in laptops. Cheaper manufacturing + worse repairability == bigger earnings per quarter

Two screws on each side of the battery so it doesn’t move and a back cover with screws would get you the same waterproofing as glue. Instead a broken glass back will get you 600€ of repair in an Apple Service Center

The present trend of screws+glue doesn’t make devices easily repairable, but it does make them much tougher and break far less.

I dropped my MacBooks at lest a dozens times and never had anything ever break or stop working.

The samsung s5 solved this already. You put a rubber seal around the back plate. This is basic engineering and every other waterproof product does exactly the same thing.

My own S5 still works fine, almost six years later, and is going strong on its third battery.

I'm not looking forward to finding a replacement, since it seems like every newer phone drops one or more features that I care about.

For the last 10 years that I own smart devices somehow I managed to not cause a water damage in any of them.

I also have to mention that Pebble watches exposed to me planned obsolesce. I purchased Pebble Time in 2015. Yes, the battery is also sealed, because the way is water proof (well, they said it is water resistant, but people were swimming with them). After 5 years of use it every day the battery did degrade, but it still lasts longer than Apple Watch.

It is so sad that the company went out of business.

There are plenty of original Apple Watches from 2015 still in service. Including mine. I gave it to a friend and he's still using it. Apple did battery service on the unit.

I did not have any service on my unit yet. That's the point.

There's a reason why cell phone batteries die after year or two, while batteries in hybrids or EVs can last 10 years.

Yes, that's the reason everyone seems to be doing it. The other one is making them slimmer.

I've yet to take a tablet for a swim myself.

I could, maybe, be convinced having waterproofing on phones could be such an important feature that it trumps everything else, but I really doubt it's truly (as opposed to: "wow, cool, I can dive to 20000ft and still take a selfie. Best. Phone. Evar.") important to that many people.

The slimness appears to be a good marketing gimmick. And, yes, "pocketability" is important.

It’s not about taking the device swimming it’s about accidentally dropping the device in the water and being able to retrieve it and have it still work.

What percentage of cellphone owners would you guess have accidentally dunked their cellphones in water, incl. toilets?

At what percentage would waterproofing be so important that it means compromising on the phone design in ways that are consumer hostile?

What bodies of water do you regularly dangle your phone over?

Besides toilet drops I once doused my phone in a pool when I was grabbing my daughter when I thought she was caught under a raft.

Water proofing isn’t for swimmers doing laps, though I’m sure many use it for that. It’s primarily for accident protection.

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