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Comment by Barrin92 | Hacker News Reader

Although probably an unpopular position I agree with Finegold who is quoted in the article.

Ever since chess became big on twitch, online communities are increasingly filled with drama around Nakamura's persona, other twitch related drama, or just general gamer-community style content that was largely absent before.

The popularity largely focusses on a few twitch celebrities rather than talented players, it does very little to promote chess players who deserve to get more attention for the quality of their play, or just genuinely players who have played for a long time.

I think it does little to foster growth of chess as a sport and is just an opportunity to milk whatever commercial value anyone can out of the attention which I wager will be short-lived, as the twitch crowd moves on to the next thing.

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This is particularly ironic considering that Finegold talking shit specifically about one streamer (xqc) has been the biggest chess drama in the Twitch world since this all started. And, of course, that only served to bring more attention from the Chess-specific world to that one celebrity.

The other drama things I can remember have come mainly from the Chess world, too. Chess.com vs chess24 tournament drama. And Nakamura vs Carlsen drama.

The main types of drama coming from Twitch people has been things like sexism in the Chess world and elitism in the chess world.

Additionally, you complain that this only focuses on the few Twitch celebrities rather than talented players... except that if the Twitch world doesn't understand why those players are talented, how will they know they have talent? This was a main criticism of chess tournament streams before chess took off on Twitch; casual viewers didn't understand what the commentators were talking about. Twitch opening up commentary to new players and teaching them why a move is bad/good from a casual viewpoint is only a good thing for the chess world.

If you actually wanted those talented players to get more attention for the quality of their play, you'd welcome this sort of beginner commentary and content. Otherwise, fewer people will recognize their talent. Do note that this takes time; you can't convert beginner chess viewers into more competent viewers in the span of a few months.

If you actually wanted those talented players to get more attention for the quality of their play, you'd reject comments like Finegold's "negative talent" comment. That is so off-putting and toxic, and is one of the primary reasons why people don't get into chess in the first place. There is a shocking amount of elitism in the chess world. And it actually comes off that way in your comment. "No, Twitch viewers are watching the wrong players, they're watching not-as-talented personality players and not the ones I think they should watch instead."

Eh. I completely disagree.

I don't find all of Nakamura's content equally interesting: I don't care so much about PogChamps (I think it's good for chess, but I don't enjoy watching it much). I have enjoyed watching 4 strong players muddle their way through learning 4 way chess, etc. I've enjoyed watching him play odds games with lots of knights and talk about what he'd discovered about these unusual games.

I'm playing more than I used to, and I know a whole bunch of people are picking up the game or playing more as a result of the attention.

Yes, some of the attention may be episodic. Bobby Fischer permanently boosted chess in the US, but the remnants of the boost felt today was nowhere near what it was at peak. Still, things compound: some fraction of those who get interested by chess streams will become people who consume chess content that you personally approve of.

It's worth noting that Ben Finegold is also a streamer and 99% of everything he says is a joke. There's some educational content on his streams, but mostly he hangs out, plays casual games, and insults the audience. It's fun.

That sounds truly awful.

It's an acquired taste. Even then, sometimes it tastes sour.

that undersells him enormously. he has a hilarious dry sense of humor (a la Leslie Nielsen), which i guess isn't for everyone in the sense that humor isn't for everyone.

That's Finegold. So what? He's wrong. There's a lot of chess audiences, and not all chess is about grandmaster level playing -- some of it is just pure entertainment, and that requires entertainers. Nakamura isn't just training chess talent -- he's creating entertainment and training entertainers.

I'd rather watch Hikaru Nakamura's streaming to any games featuring Magnus Carlsen (unless his opponent is Nakamura). You get the sense that Nakamura is one of the kindest and most generous people around, and he's plenty funny too. Compare and contrast the ways in which Nakamura and Carlsen are going about the business of building chess business. The world champion sets up traditional chess events, such as competitions and tours. Nakamura streams, and not just alone but with other streamers, and makes a show of training xqc even though xqc is mediocre at chess and probably always will be -- this is entertaining!

Either Finegold gets this and is playing his part to add to the drama (entertainment) or he doesn't get it and is missing out on all the fun. Either way he contributes to Nakamura's efforts!

Yes, yes, Finegold makes awesome videos to teach children chess, and he is entertaining in his own way, but there's no need to dump on Nakamura's efforts. Different markets.

The most popular streamers in any game are not necessarily the most talented, but those that are the most entertaining while still being reasonably talented.

In the media industry, it was entertainment the variable that brought the majority of eye balls and popularity.

And I don't understand why people get upset by this.

Twitch, like in any other media, has a wide variety of content: has educational content, has entertainment, has competitive gameplay, etc. Just because some games are competitive doesn't mean you don't have different formats of content around the game.

Entertainment is still the most popular form of content, and that's fine.

That's the internet and life in general. Most things tend to be personality driven unless the person is beyond exceptional over their peers in which case they have merely a larger percentage chance to break through just by virtue of skill alone, but even this is far from guaranteed.

that's nothing. it's mainly about agadmator and eric rosen.. and it's a beautiful sphere

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