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Comment by smabie | Hacker News Reader

I would love to use a custom built keyboard, but my RSI makes it so I can only type on a Kinesis Advantage for extended periods of time. I'm surprised more people don't use them, the traditional keyboard layout makes very little sense. It's crazy how much inertia many sub-optimal things have.

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There's a whole sub community online that builds custom ergonomic boards. They are often split (two halves) for better positioning and you can tilt and tent them.

For example, have a look at the Dactyl Manuform or its variants (eg Tightyl), the kyria or corne.

An exciting new development in the homebuilt keyboard scene is Bluetooth controllers, so the ecosystem is starting to embrace wireless too! Look for nice!nano.

Both of those are really good to hear. I've often dreamt of two things:

Making a completely bespoke little bluetooth macro keyboard with maybe 5-10 keys on it.

The other is probably further off, but I want movable keys. Not custom PCBs laid out how I want, but some way to move keys around, so I can say "today the escape key should be 2 mm down" and move the key.

The first might happen, but sadly I suspect the second is very expensive, and has a customer base of maybe one person.

Both exist! Macros are a really common intro to custom mechs, since they're much easier than a full board, but off-the-shelf bluetooth is limited to the nice!nano currently.

This board with movable keys isn't particularly expensive relative to other boards, but I haven't heard of any custom designs: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955084832.html

That product literally looks like a dream come true for me, down to being able to rotate the keys individually.

Thanks for the link! I'm off to order the mini.

Enjoy! I use https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/ and https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ for example layouts/designs, but be warned - it's quite a rabbit hole

I wasn't aware, those look like exactly what I'm looking for!

I went for an ergodox when covid WFH started, to prioritize ergonomics... Loved it so much that I got the hotdox kit from Alpaca to build a second one with better switches (I went with the Zealios 68g, could go on a whole rant about how much I love these switches). I have 4 layers with all of the different symbols that I’d normally use on/near the home row, which means no more hand twisting while reaching for symbols.

I didn’t ever notice discomfort after working for 8+ hours straight, until it was no longer there. Literally had no idea - but my wrists, arms, and hands all feel so much better these days.

I'd really love to see more data on whether ergonomic keyboards actually work. From what I've read, it sounds like the results are mixed: I kind of want to try a split keyboard like the ergodox or Kinesis, but I feel I tend to cross-over a fair amount when typing, and I wonder if a split keyboard would be less efficient.

I also overthink a lot about the position of frequently used keys like Cmd/Ctrl/Alt (on a Mac for instance), and what the optimal placement would be, and I feel like there's very little data about this topic.

I find the motion of rotating the hands outward past the neutral position, such as to strike the enter key on a standard keyboard, to be extremely unnatural and the source of major RSI. I switched over to an ergodox ez out of necessity, and found that moving all frequently used keys to the thumb pads or to layers near the home row was extremely helpful. I think is because it eliminated those frequent outward flexes and ensured that the wrists remain almost always in a neutral position. I think the health benefits of keeping the wrists neutrally positioned while typing is uncontroversial.

On my Kinesis Advantage I can type any letter whilst keeping my wrists straight, hands still and with much less finger movement than a regular keyboard. It completely cured my RSI and it hasn't returned in over 4 years. I realise this is anecdotal, but it's not really a surprise that a better key layout leads to less stretching and contortion and less RSI.

I've been using an Ergodox for a few years now, and the big thing I had to get used to is not cross-typing y. I still do it with a laptop keyboard, but after a week or so I got the hang of it. In the interim, I made the key I would accidentally hit a dead key.

It's a layer key now and I don't hit it accidentally in a typical day.

The ortholinear layout was dead simple for me, I gather that's not true for everyone but one way or the other, your fingers get used to it all after a couple weeks.

I don't have any data on them actually working. But I feel a lot better standing, with my upper arms parallel to the ground, and hands shoulder-width apart, wrists slightly supinated. My shoulders stay loose and my neck and back stay straight. Any number of random aches and pains don't happen any more.

I seem to recall from about 20 years ago when I got my first Marquardt Mini Ergo, that the company producing them, and the magazines testing them, referring to the world record in fastest typing at the time was made on them, several times. It is split.

So the thing to do would be to compare on which devices these records, or yearly championships have been achieved.

Maybe there are lists? I tried to find them, but got overwhelmed.

I didn't realise how exhausting typing on a normal staggered layout keyboard is until using a Kinesis Advantage, I love it to bits.

Like try hitting the 'x' key with your ring finger (next to pinky) like you're "supposed" to on a MacBook Pro with your elbows out - that's the insanity I'm talking about!

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