Can someone help me understand how this will help the adoption when they still have to buy the expensive batteries
Car manufacturers will only innovate batteries to the extent that fits their pricing and performance models.
With the decoupling, the market for batteries will expand and different types of batteries for different performance / technologies will come into picture. But by making it legal to sell cars without batteries, it obliges car manufacturers to come up with data, certifications, technology transfer systems, etc to legally allow battery manufacturers to support their cars. This reduces a lot of paperwork and other red tape. For example, insurance. If you buy a car and change it's battery, your insurance provider may object for coverage or charge you extra for after market modifications.
So, while the user has to buy the battery, he will have more choice.
Also, new battery technology and new battery companies can grow with more ease.
There are some downsides to this approach. Many vehicle dynamics and safety tests are conducted for the vehicle as a whole. So it has to be seen how those issues are addressed. However, since the location of the battery, in a given vehicle is fixed, I think coming up with a framework of certifications or standardized parameters for battery physicals should be easy.
I think this law is primarily aimed at taxis and auto-rickshaws in many urban areas. Most of India's middle class still drives bikes and scooters. However, there are many taxis and autos. And these are usually very polluting. Shifting to an EV is usually more cost effective for the driver. The cost per kilometer of travel is lesser in EVs.
There won't be any tight competition or open interface, it'll be a monopoly by the two business groups who support him the most.
By the logic you are stating, any business or market friendly move by any government will have to be targeted at specific individuals or families.
I really want to understand why there will not be any competition or open interface.
The car company decides the interface. If a rival chooses to create an open interface, and reap the benefits, market forces will ensure that all manufacturers do the same.
Moreover, the number of car manufacturers are limited, but the number of battery companies can expand a lot. Perhaps lead way to investments from overseas.
Imagine Tesla being able to open a battery factory in India, and just sell batteries, without worrying about cars and all.
The current government has put on a lot of regulation to "protect home grown e-tailers" when Ambani was planning to launch an Amazon competitor.
Flipkart before they sold to Walmart had begged for years to give protection, but none was given, but when JioMart was to be launched, suddenly regulation was changed to benefit local e tailers, major benefactor was JioMart.
> Imagine Tesla being able to open a battery factory in India, and just sell batteries, without worrying about cars and all.
Hahahahahahahaha Due to stuoid red tape, Tesla took Gigafactory plans to China. 70% thungs were need to be locally sourced for starting Tesla factory in India and obviously we don't have the ecosystem.
> By the logic you are stating, any business or market friendly move by any government will have to be targeted at specific individuals or families.
Were you living under a rock when Telecom rules were being constantly flouted by Jio? All rules were specifically created to help Jio. The AGR case crippled telecos except Jio. Jio also has AGR but SC put the decision onto the govt for collecting or not. But others are forced to pay regardless if they go under.
> The car company decides the interface. If a rival chooses to create an open interface, and reap the benefits, market forces will ensure that all manufacturers do the same.
Hahahaha just like "anyone can start a startup in India. They can take Amazon AWS servers and domain from Godaddy and there won't be an issue.
Just like "anyone can apply for a business license and start a manufacturing plant"
You blisfully and maliciously ignore that the entire govt machinery has been working overtime to favour Ambani Adani.
> Moreover, the number of car manufacturers are limited, but the number of battery companies can expand a lot
Yeah and there can be many businesses which you can set up. Sure, all you ought to do is as for a license. Sure, govt won't twist rules to favour JioBattery and JioElectricCar
Protection for them has been around when the previous government was there too. FDI norms were eased only in the fag end of 2012.
Additionally, I agree with protecting home grown e-tailers. Now, perhaps the rules favor Ambani, but breaking up large conglomerates is a different problem.
From the perspective of enacting sound laws and regulation, restricting outside e-tailers and promoting home grown ones is always good, atleast until India is a lot more developed.
> Due to stuoid red tape, Tesla took Gigafactory plans to China.
And thereby ending up supporting an authoritarian regime that mocks human rights, and is actively participating in genocide.
Tesla went to China for cheap labor. Do you think ill-treatment of workers in Chinese factories will be reported by "Independent media" in China?
>anyone can start a startup in India. They can take Amazon AWS servers and domain from Godaddy and there won't be an issue
I don't get it. Yes, anyone can actually make a startup in India, they can hire AWS servers, get domains from GoDaddy and there wont be an issue. I know because I did the same.
>anyone can apply for a business license and start a manufacturing plant
Technically true, but it's still difficult. Even in countries like US, you have to grease a few hands to get things done. Sure, it may be the hands of a Senator, but still you have to do it. I would say the exception is Silicon Valley, but examples like those are few and far between. Even SV spends a lot for lobbying.
>You blisfully and maliciously ignore that the entire govt machinery has been working overtime to favour Ambani Adani.
Far fetched.
>Yeah and there can be many businesses which you can set up. Sure, all you ought to do is as for a license. Sure, govt won't twist rules to favour JioBattery and JioElectricCar
Can you run a business in your country without a license from the govt?
Govt. may twist rules, but the rules currently placed are not twisted. I never said they cannot be twisted in the future.
Anything that didn't suit your malicious intent gets ignored totally while your try to divert attention.
> Protection for them has been around when the previous government was there too. FDI norms were eased only in the fag end of 2012.
And yet you totally neglect that when flipkart begged for speific ecommerce protection none was provided
Only when Ambani reacted to launch JioMart was the protection avoided
Also I love how to totally ignored the fact that Jio abused and how the entire govt machinery has favoured Jio
Also how Jio abused and flouted ALL regulatory things and gave free data calls for over one year when the law explicitly forbids it.
I also love how you ignore that the govt pressurized telcos to pay AGR dues while Jio was let out of the payment cycle
> Tesla went to China for cheap labor. Do you think ill-treatment of workers in Chinese factories will be reported by "Independent media" in China?
Well, Modi govt put red tape so much that Tesla chose to go to a country which blatantly copies IP and patents.
Things are that bad.
Jio was questioned and it argued that IUC (Interconnect Usage Charges, the minimum charges that are to levied on the user for a voice call on any Indian cellular network, these charges are charges levied by a network for a call that originates in another network but terminates in its network) was relevant to normal mobile calls, and what Jio was providing was essentially data calls, akin to talking on whatsapp, it can give away free calls.
It's not like it was not questioned, or it did not explain. Also other operators have opposed the free calls issue because they earn quite a bit of revenue from IUC charges, which are basically a tax on allowing users on one network to call users on another network.
So you can make the call, whether Jio actually flouted the rules, or did it make it cheap for everyone to make calls in the market.
As an additional point, TRAI, the main Telecom regulating body in India, has slashed the IUC charges by half in 2018 and is set to be completely removed by December 2020
> I also love how you ignore that the govt pressurized telcos to pay AGR dues while Jio was let out of the payment cycle
AGR dues are just that, dues. Money the companies were supposed to pay, but did not and accumulated the dues. Jio was a new entrant and has significantly lesser dues (195 crores), compared to other players (Airtel, which has been in the market for decades, owes about 44000 crores). All of them were given a time period of 10 years to make staggered payments, payments that they were supposed to pay, but ignored. That is a huge loss for the country. Even in the courts, the companies did not fight about dues, they fought about whether they were responsible for past pending dues on spectrum, that they purchased from other companies.
All companies went to court, when they were asked to pay past dues of spectrum purchased by them recently. Essentially they were asked to pay for the dues accrued on the spectrum, they recently purchased from failing companies.
>And yet you totally neglect that when flipkart begged for speific ecommerce protection none was provided
Flipkart opposed relaxing rules related to FDI norms and asked for specific protections for e-comerce. The rules were relaxed nevertheless.
>Only when Ambani reacted to launch JioMart was the protection avoided
I guess you meant to say 'provided". I would like to know what specific protections were provided to JioMart?
>Well, Modi govt put red tape so much that Tesla chose to go to a country which blatantly copies IP and patents.
>Things are that bad.
I am curious about this also. As far as I remember, Tesla never showed any interest in building a factory in India. However, what exactly are the "red tape so much" that you are talking about?
All you have to do is Google. Did you do that?
There are countless tweets and articles about Elon himself replying to Indian Tesla fans that due to Modi govt's inflexible regulation, he can't start a factory in India.
I didn't bother to read the other wall of text since you don't show a propensity to finding out facts which don't fit in your narrative.
As far as I know, businesses don’t require general licences to operate in the United Kingdom.
Licences for certain activities that have an environmental impact may be necessary (significant use of water, potential pollution of air / ground / water, dangerous material handling).
My brother runs a mon-n-pop store, selling stationery items.
Getting a business license took 1 day, one application and renewed every year online. Cost is about 10 USD per year.
I know many in my neighborhood that don't even have that.
Majority of the retailers have a simple license, usually obtained very quickly from local municipal corporation.
I can start a company for consulting, trade, retail, etc, with the help of a legal counsel and a bit of paperwork in about a couple of weeks.
There are many things wrong with the BJP, but they are not really equivalent to the Republican Party. This is a lazy comparison at best, disingenuous at worst. Their economic, environmental policies and even social issues are completely different than the Republicans.
The Republican Party is on its own little island far far away from any other normal political party in the world. For example, the Republican Party is the only major democratic political party in the entire world that denies the existence of anthropogenic climate change. There are major right wing political parties worldwide that may claim the costs of doing anything exceeds the benefits or that we need to wait for better solutions, etc but no major party denies the basic scientific fact of it happening the way the Republicans do.
There is also other stuff like the prevalence of young earth creationism, the overt religiosity, the lack of any economic principles (e.g. just see their rhetoric on deficits when there is a Democrat in charge vs what they do when they are in charge) etc that sets them apart from major right wing political parties worldwide.
Your statement is lazy comparison, disingenuous at worst.
Economic policies? Oh, do you mean the disasterous butchering of Indian Economy which took it to a 8yr low? Or do you mean the 45yr high unemployment level? Or the pathetic rollout of GST when they kept changing rules everyday or the disasterous demonization which screwed up entire informal sector?
Environmental policy?
Is this the same policy wherein the BJP is about to remove all protections provided to Environment by law? It would made it very easy for companies to take out a forest?
Or are you referring to the million trees cut down under the pretense of "development"
Or do you refer to the butchering of part of Arey forest for a metro car shade in Mumbai?
Social issues you say?
So you mean the blatant attempt of destroying Secular fabric of this nation by bringing CAA NRC?
Or do you refer to the police state wherein they arrest everyone who dares oppose them on sedition? Or the arrest-but-no chargesheet-file? Or the malicious rearrests after courts have let the dissenters go?
* Modi doubled down on Congress' NREGA scheme for providing guaranteed 100 days of pay to rural workers, whether they worked or not.
* Introduced direct cash transfers to farmers.
* Various farm loan waivers, especially some of the BJP-led state governments.
* Announced a free healthcare under National Health Protection scheme.
* Free housing, electricity and LPG gas connections for the poor.
* Introduced long term capital gains tax in 2019.
* Non-opposition to LGBT rights. I say "non-opposition" because they don't champion it like the Democrats, but are neutral since it's not a big ticket item in Indian society or politics. They passed a bill to prohibit discrimination against transgender persons last year (but there is some controversy surrounding it [1]). Again, a big no-no for the Republican Party.
* Massive push for renewable energy - India doubled its renewable energy capacity in 3 years and on track to triple it in the following 4 years [2]. 47 GW (45% of all under development) coal projects was cancelled just in 2019 [3]. Good luck trying to get the climate change denying Republicans to do this.
BJP's economic polices are as socialist as they come [4]. None of this would fly with the Republicans. That's how they are different - in actual policy positions.
[1] - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/12/04/7843987...
[2] - https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/energy-speak/new...
[3] - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/banking/financ...
[4] - https://www.fairobserver.com/region/central_south_asia/india...
However, they are no less socialist than anyone else. The only difference is Republican socialism flows upwards.
I mean, what could be more socialist than demanding a foreign company he sold and deciding which limited sets of companies is allowed to buy it. And we don’t even need to get into the outright bribery where they are demanding a cut of the transaction.
That behavior, even without the open corruption, is beyond what most major center left parties in the world are proposing now that Corbyn does not lead UK’s Labour.
Yes, BJP is primarily acting like a socialist party.
Also I didn't say equal to Republican, I said equivalent as in both parties are conservative and they both work exclusively for their billionaire donors while pretending to care for common people.
I've got a bridge to sell you if you think this characteristic is exclusive to only BJP and the Republicans.
Exclusively is what both republicans and BJP are experts at doing.
Indian economy is screwed and yet Ambani is getting richer day by day. Adani recently took 74% stake in Mumbai airport
All govt companies are now bankrupt because BJP wants to favour their cronies. BSNL is on the verge of collapse because BJP considers Jio as the "official govt telecom company"
This is categorically false. There are several PSUs that are profitable. From a cursory Google search: https://www.fortuneindia.com/psu?year=2019
Maybe go easy on the exaggeration.
> BSNL is on the verge of collapse because BJP considers Jio as the "official govt telecom company"
BSNL had it coming with years of mismanagement, high employee costs and inability to upgrade infrastructure. Though, you could certainly argue competition from Jio accelerated it with its predatory pricing.
BSNL was systematically destroyed by Modi govt to favour Jio.
If BSNL was mismanaged for years then why did it collapse only when Govt moved all official contracts to Jio rather than BSNL?
WHY is Modi govt not giving money to BSNL? almost all Pune office of BSNL has taken voluntery retirement. All of them went away in poof one week they filled people by hiring daily contractors
If you don't believe that BSNL was systematically destroyed then I have a bridge to sell you.
Maybe don't go easy on being ignorant on facts. Maybe read news.
BSNL has been a loss making business since 2010. It's literally in their financial statements. Read it: https://www.bsnl.co.in/opencms/bsnl/BSNL/about_us/financial_....
> WHY is Modi govt not giving money to BSNL?
Last I checked they announced a Rs 74,000 crore bailout package by way of BSNL-MTNL merger. I don't know what the status of that is, but that doesn't sound like "not giving money to BSNL".
Then Modi should've put in more money in BSNL
But BJP did not do that did they?
It seems like you're pretending to be neutral while spreading false information by twisting facts.
74,000 package announced?
Well the BJP govt has announced a LOT of things over the last six years.
BJP CM promised 25k crore to Kalyan Dombivli Municipality. KDM got 0 Rs from BJP
I can't even remember a single month in Modi's first term when he wasnt announcing oackage
Thousands of crore to JK
To Bihar
To Jharkhand
Anywhere BNP was desperate to win elections they threw bubbles of 10000000crore package so that their troll armies can refer to the announcement
If I had a penny for everytime BJP announced a package for anything then I'd be a billionaire
Er, where is the false information? The bailout package announcement is real. Delloite are the contracted consultants for making the BSNL-MTNL merger happen. As I said, I have no idea what the status is. If the execution is botched (and this government has a history of poor execution), feel free to criticize. But it seems like you are making false claims throughout this thread (no sources for anything), only to then shift goalposts when you're proven wrong with sources.
> so that their troll armies can refer to the announcement
Please keep this kind of rhetoric out of HN and discuss in good faith. This isn't Reddit.
> Where is the false information
You're pretending as if Modi govt did not intentionally bankrupt BSNL.
Your so called.package is bogus. ET calls it "lacks teeth"
https://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/is-modis-b...
How BJP is dismantling BSNL
https://www.newsclick.in/how-centre-dismantling-bsnl
So both the package is fraud and BJP intentionally dismantled BJP to favour Jio
And here you're pretending that BSNL's downfall was inevitable. They pushed BSNL into a ditch and now they're not helping it come out of the ditch
It took me a second to google "BJP announced package but didn't give" first result?
And this wasn't the only result.
18months on but 125k crore package was not received by Bihar
https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/18-months-on-bihar-y...
Also the 20.lakh crore for corona is also a fraud
https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/covid-19-packa...
Fitch Solutions said the actual fresh money in the Covid-19 package is only about 1% of GDP
Modi declared that package was 10% of GDP. But actual money given by him was only 1%
They included "income tax refunds" in this package, also "Selling ISRO" was a part of the package under "privatising space travel"
The actual money given my BJP was negligible compared to other countries
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/covid-19-india-...
> Please keep this kind of rhetoric out of HN and discuss in good faith
You'd do better to follow your own advice and stop your malicious intent.
Also, just thinking about it now, it helps mitigate risk due to fluctuating demand because the cost to own and operate the vehicle scales down more at light usage.
So there is a benefit in converting fixed upfront capital costs into rolling operational costs.
In most developed countries consumers can convert those upfront costs easily and cheaply through loans. In a country like India, loans are much more expensive.
Think of it like using cloud services instead of buying an upfront machine.
See https://tradingeconomics.com/india/real-interest-rate-percen... for real (ie inflation adjusted) interest rates in India.
They seem to be above 5% per year. That's high compared to the rest of the world. (Though I wouldn't say extremely high.)
[0]: https://www.ing.nl/particulier/lenen/jouw-leendoel/autolenin...
It's probably some kind of institutional lending, which tends to be much lower.
Trading Economic say they took the data from the World Bank.
See https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FR.INR.RINR?locations=I... for a comparison of real interest rates between the Netherland and India accordind to the World Bank.
The Word Bank gives a bit of background:
> Statistical Concept and Methodology: Many interest rates coexist in an economy, reflecting competitive conditions, the terms governing loans and deposits, and differences in the position and status of creditors and debtors. In some economies interest rates are set by regulation or administrative fiat. In economies with imperfect markets, or where reported nominal rates are not indicative of effective rates, it may be difficult to obtain data on interest rates that reflect actual market transactions. Deposit and lending rates are collected by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as representative interest rates offered by banks to resident customers. The terms and conditions attached to these rates differ by country, however, limiting their comparability. Real interest rates are calculated by adjusting nominal rates by an estimate of the inflation rate in the economy. A negative real interest rate indicates a loss in the purchasing power of the principal. The real interest rates are calculated as (i - P) / (1 + P), where i is the nominal lending interest rate and P is the inflation rate (as measured by the GDP deflator). In 2009 the IMF began publishing a new presentation of monetary statistics for countries that report data in accordance with its Monetary Financial Statistical Manual 2000. The presentation for countries that report data in accordance with its International Financial Statistics (IFS) remains the same.
However, renting allows for lower income earning sections of the society better access to EVs
If the vehicle doesn't even come with a battery and you're able to acquire a standard battery from any number of competing vendors, you're a whole lot less afraid of buying an EV and not being able to replace its battery in five years because it's been obsoleted by the OEM.
The opposite might be the case as well, maybe the cars are easy to manufacture locally but they import the batteries from China or wherever?
Or maybe just decoupling the batteries from the car enables more consumer choice. I wish the article had some hint about the actual motivation for this policy, but I could imagine several scenarios where it could be beneficial.
Companies that raise prices by doing that will be beaten by companies that don't very quickly. Alternatively, combined with the much weaker law enforcement, "illegal" (I'm not sure about the legality of cracking copy protections here) copies will flourish if it's close to being feasible, which it could be.