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Comment by eloff | Hacker News Reader

This is basically my biggest objection to the young people (it's weird to write that as a young person) not taking Covid19 precautions. Yeah it won't likely kill you (your morning commute is higher risk) but it has a high probability of leaving you with permanent damage that could knock an unknown amount of time off your life. This is even true for the flu by the way, just likely much less so. It's a nebulous risk that's hard to quantify, so people tend to not even consider it. It's still a risk though, and it could even be a very large risk, we really just don't know.

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I'm 28 and got it mid-March (from a roommate, I was already isolating at home but just sharing an apartment was enough). Last week I tested 60% of the expected level of gas diffusion at the Boston COVID pulmunology clinic.

That's about it. There's no treatment, there's no medication, and if it were to get worse the only option is a lung transplant. I have to learn to breathe more deeply and my heart will wear out significantly faster due to the higher arterial pressure and faster pulse. I've got to be careful exercizing; 50% diffusion is considered the point where a light jog drives you into hypoxia. My o2 sensor says I drop down to the low 80s if I miss a breath at the wrong time. That's just going to be the new normal for the next 50 years, should I be so lucky.

Honestly the oxygen is the least inconvenient thing. Each breath gets me a bit more air than a normal person would get on top of Mt Ranier, but I've already pretty much adjusted to that. Low oxygen is hard to notice and adjusted for quickly, but nobody talks about the CO2. CO2 is being locked into my blood by the same scars/thickening that are keeping oxygen out. Many people can relate to extended altitude sickness (and how much it sucks) but very very few people my age have elevated CO2 like this. The closest you can get is sprinting until you're sucking air, and you can't catch your breath even if you take the biggest breath you can, until your ribs creak. I have been living in that moment for six months. I highly recommend against it. At the best times I'm anxious and forgetful; at the worst I'm just lying down for hours trying to breathe as quickly and deeply as possible with an intense sensation of being on the verge of passing out. It sucks, its cutting into my lifespan and it's very seriously affecting my quality of life.

Long hauler effects like this seem to be in the double digit percentages, which puts the number of people around a hundred times higher than the fatalities. Seriously, it's very not fucking worth it. Even if I recover partially -which is unlikely, at this point- or even if you "only" get a less physical impact like postviral syndrome, its going to severely fuck up years of your life, FAR worse than whatever quarantine is doing to you.

Can you use an oxygen tank to improve your O2 levels? Or is your rate of absorption a limiting factor?

I'm good almost always! It's only once or twice a day that my breathing becomes sketchy enough that it dips if I miss a good breath. No need for oxygen therapy unless you're constantly hypoxic, AFAIK.

I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're experiencing such terrible after effects. When you had COVID, was it a particularly severe case?

I hope there is some possibility of long term recovery beyond where you're stuck at now.

It was almost nothing aside from the shortness of breath, although the loss of smell was distressing. Very mild soreness, minor weird and unproductive cough. The shortness of breath was unlike any sickness I've ever had and got me to go to the emergency room when I was scared of passing out. By the time I got there (30+ min; had to get picked up) my o2 was in the low 90s which is not much cause for concern.

The trick of it is that if breathing difficulty is the only symptom, it's very difficult to diagnose. You breathe faster and your heart beats faster to keep your o2 at 98+. In the emergency room there's no way to tell me (50% breathing capacity, 94 o2 sat, 120 bpm) from someone scared about losing their sense of smell (98 o2, 120 bpm, 100% breathing). The only way to actually distinguish is the amount of scarring on a CT scan (which is very rough, varies person to person, and really needs a prior CT) or a diffusion test, which requires the person to be well enough to breathe into a big machine for 15 or so minutes.

Since so few people have gotten such a workup, AFAIK there's no real sense of how severe the normal infection is. I would guess myself to be in the 80-95th percentile for unluckiness at my age. If the impact on my breathing had been just a bit better, I think I would have just acclimated to the new normal and called it a lingering cough. The "sick"-like effects were so mild that I would have otherwise guessed it was unrelated. Then again I'm prone to ignore stuff like that.

I deeply hope doctors keep a close eye on how the average person's lungs are affected in terms of gas exchange and scarring. Even if you don't notice a change, good breathing habits can help reduce arterial pressure and reduce strain on your heart.

I wish this was a top level comment. This is awful and incredibly distressing to read, I'm so sorry for you for this. I wish everyone understood this horrible disease caused possibly permanent disability. I'm particularly sorry about the CO2 levels, I don't think other commenters generally understand the gravity of that.

There is no evidence that there is a "high probability of leaving you with permanent damage". What you are saying is all based on some anecdotes. Take Covid seriously, assess your risk based on actual data. Don't spread misinformation.

This thread does indeed contain actual data

Can you cite the data on the probability of it causing serious permanent damage? I’m not seeing it anywhere in the thread.

It is causing myocarditis and myocarditis is causing permanent damage to some %that you can Google.

How can I determine that percentage without knowing (1) what fraction of people get myocarditis or (2) how serious it is in those cases?

again, there are available studies with results freely available to the public. dyor instead of just arguing on internet forums

Actually there is some data surfacing and so far it's indicating as much as 1/3 of people have lingering effects - even of those who did not develop symptoms - and some percentage of those will be permanent. You are actually the one spreading misinformation here by saying there is no data. We all wish there was higher quality data, but it's definitely not no data.

Can you link to the data you’re referencing?

Nowhere does the article linked claim that the heart inflammation described is serious permanent damage.

I’m not a doctor, and don’t know one way or the other. Is there a reason you’re claiming this represents “permanent damage”?

"Severe myocarditis can permanently damage your heart muscle, possibly causing: Heart failure. Heart attack or stroke. Rapid or abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias). Sudden cardiac death."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/myocarditis/s...

> can

Sure, but the linked post didn’t say the inflammation was “severe”.

This is basically the problem with jumping to conclusions based on some guy's claim, because the guy then retracts his claim but most people will still believe that covid causes myocarditis.

> Key quote: "at this time, there have been no cases of myocarditis in COVID-19 positive student-athletes at Penn State."

> we really just don't know.

We also don't know the health of these players prior to contracting COVID. I also wonder about factors like drug and alcohol abuse and possibly steroid use.

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