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Comment by bilekas | Hacker News Reader

So she already makes 8k a month from her subscriptions and thats scraping by ? Sorry if I dont feel any sympathy.

Quote

>Ms Michelle has 550 fans and makes $8,000 a month, charging a $30 subscription fee to users. She also relies on tips ranging from $5-$200 for pay-per-view photos, videos and text messages.

>She says her OnlyFans work is the only way she can support her family due to the pandemic, and fears many other content creators will struggle to make ends meet going forward.

That $8,000 has to be after taxes. Because after OnlyFans cut she should be taking home $13,500.

Does a 'fan' imply a subscriber? That could be the difference between a follower and a subscriber.

> Does a 'fan' imply a subscriber?

Yes. Generally there is no "free" tier.

Thanks. I'm not familiar. I know that Twitch, for instance, has a separate concepts for subscriber (pays money) and follower (wants updates on the person).

>She says her OnlyFans work is the only way she can support her family due to the pandemic, and fears many other content creators will struggle to make ends meet going forward.

Really? There's always working at Walmart, Target or even collecting an income from Patreon?

Can you really support a family working at Walmart? I can’t even imagine trying to do that. Rent in a modest apartment in my town would be like 2/3 of your income.

Yes, people do it.

It isn't an easy life. You get a tiny apartment and share bedrooms. Parents (more likely parent though) often sleep in the living room. Not all apartments will allow this but enough will that you can find a place. There is enough money for shelter and food, and the cheap cable TV, so that is your entertainment.

It isn't a bad life, but you are limited away from a lot of the things most of us enjoy.

I know people who have done it. I went to college and want my kids to do the same so they don't have to live that life. Unfortunately most in that life don't realize that it wouldn't be hard to get their kids out of it. They are eligible for a lot of programs that the rest of us can't get to take care of the costs, but if you don't realize that the effort of applying yourself is worth it they won't get you out and the cycle repeats.

If your only option available is a Walmart job, you definately should NOT be having kids. Society used to judge things like irresponsible pregnancies, and everybody were way better off because of that.

Fertility rate scales with poverty. Those earning middle-class wages or higher tend to have fewer kids, or none. Much is linked to education and access to contraceptives. People will have sex, period. Shaming people for having kids helps at nothing.

> Society used to judge things like irresponsible pregnancies, and everybody were way better off because of that.

Revisionist delusional fantasy. In Western society people had far more children a couple of generations ago, regardless of wealth. The Church pressured this as well.

Yes, people tended to have way more children. And pregnancies out of wedlock were way less prevalent too. Having two Walmart paychecks instead of one per household will make it way easier to raise a family. But nowadays single moms are heralded as heroes... so-much-progress. Such progressive times.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

People laud single moms not because there's a virtue in being single while raising kids, but because it's a hardship, particularly to do well.

This is such an awful and tone deaf comment. Reproduction is a fundamental biological need.

We should not be denying people who are exploited by our economy this biological right. What we should be doing is lifting up the worker to a baseline of dignified living.

I sincerely hope you will take a few minutes and reflect on your statement that poor people should not have kids, and that society should somehow punish them for doing so.

> Reproduction is a fundamental biological need

Do you need reproduction to survive? Well, lots of people are alive who haven't reproduced, and many are of old age. So, this doesn't quite check out.

Everybody except, you know, the families who were permanently destroyed.

I'm sure poor Bella would be fine, everybody else on the platform making less than that might want to reconsider their monthly spending.

Do you really think that everyone can work at Walmart, Target, etc? And I'm referring to the fact that those companies can hire only so many people in one location.

Yes you can. Walmart, Amazon and Target are doing just fine, when worst comes to the worst, there are options.

And also you can do both.

A grocery store doesn’t pay $8k a month (unless you’re a manager at that store)

Sure, I am all for creators not going to work at a grocery store, there are other options for them to make an income, and it doesn't even have to be forever.

Retail jobs introduce a higher risk of catching corona, pay terribly (likely close to minimum wage, which isn't enough), are terrible banal working environments, require travel to and from each day, have schedules that might not work for this person, etc.

There are tons of valid reasons why someone can't "just get a job at Walmart".

I see you missed the "only way" part.

She isn't doing this because it's the only way she can make a living. She's doing it because it's the easiest way to make money.

That sounds a lot like my job as a Paramedic, actually.

At least Walmart got hazard pay. We were specifically exempted from it.

I too lack sympathy that she's only making $8,000/mo on OnlyFans. Reality is that she may have to adjust her lifestyle like hundreds of thousands if not millions of other people have.

The good ole “get a job” reply. You hate to see it.

Who said "get a job?"

For everyone else on the platform, probably yes? If I was them I would consider options.

Those are closed, restricted or its employees furloughed due to the 'rona and won't pay nearly as much as selling pictures on the internet. Patreon has the same issues and a different model - less personalized, and you get paid per creation (or per month), instead of the individual sale model that Onlyfans seems to have (based on this article). Not as much space for personalized requests either.

> Patreon has the same issues?

But creators can still make money on this platform no? I see most creators there, what are these 'issues'?

Really? How well do they pay?

Well enough to make at least some additional income, really bad to put all your eggs in one platform.

8k a month, but that is pre-tax, pre-healthcare, etc. Supporting a family and paying for health insurance for them is going to knock that number down real fast.

Depending on where this person lives, yes that absolutely could be scraping by. Even more so if they have a family member who needs special care, or they are paying for someone's education.

That’s 96k per year. Assuming 20k in taxes and 10k in health insurance (both very generous numbers), that’s still 66k per year. Outside of some Californian cities, 66k is more than enough to lead a comfortable life on.

Your numbers seem reasonable, but that 66k has to support N people, covering rent, food, childcare or tuition, all the equipment and clothing costs for the business, etc.

Is it enough to save for retirement? To deal with a medical emergency or sudden bill? If not, I'd feel comfortable calling that scraping by.

There are many places that would be a tight squeeze in the states.

$66K is median household income in US, so if it's not enough, it's a much broader problem than Camshowing/thirstwatering.

Agreed, I have never understood this type of logic that seems to justify their desire for more money.

If I can survive in LA alone on $19k, you and your family can do fine with $66k. You just want health insurance...

Sounds like a race to the bottom.

66k doesn't typically include all the costs of operating a business, safety from people with parasocial relationships, etc. which this person has to carry.

But yes, I'd also argue that it is a much broader problem in the US.

There are a lot of families living on a lot less than that. Go to the poor area of your town sometime. Where the blacks, hispanic, and immigrants live (sadly the stereotype has a lot of truth behind it). Notice that there are a lot of kids living in the small houses with bad paint. Notice someone fixing a 15 year old car outside with just hand tools. Hope that the violence problems in those areas don't get you. In general I find such people making the best of their lot, nice people who want the best for their family. They don't have much to live on but there is enough for food (except when drugs are involved which is all too common)

It not like it is hard work. You could easily do a second job at the same time.

It's presumably a huge amount of work. There's the work of setting up the shoot and the performance itself, then the photo editing, managing and interacting with your community constantly, marketing, dealing with the finances/bookwork, researching and buying new equipment and clothing, etc etc etc.

Just like successful twitch and YouTube channels, the behind the scenes work is hugely underestimated.

You are trivializing the work of someone without any apparent understanding of the actual labor involved.

I could easily say that typing at a computer doesn’t look like hard work and you could easily get a second job to a dev. They’d tell you that the part you see doesn’t tell the whole story.

Maybe don’t judge a person only by what you can see.

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