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Comment by kerosene | Hacker News Reader

What typically happens with unions is the agreement will likely contain a salary guideline adhered to most of the time, which diminishes individual leverage.

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That's never been my experience with unions and wages. My salary has been based in what I negotiated but the union ensures that each year I get a raise that is at least in line with inflation so that I am not, in really terms, making less money each year. They also collectively bargain on my behalf for annual leave and provide the same function for me that HR provide for my employer.

The unions you are referring to are almost universally for blue collar workers. Most professional athletes are members of unions. Most highly paid actors are members of a union. Neither of those groups have decreased individual leverage. It's unlikely that a union for highly paid white collar workers would closely resemble a union for blue collar workers.

> Neither of those groups have decreased individual leverage.

Huh? Sure they do. The MLB negotiated agreement is terrible for top performers, who are paid close to the league minimum salary for the first three years of their career, and an arbitration-determined salary for the next two.

As soon as the union-negotiated common salary time runs out, top players’ pay jumps several times.

What were equivalent players paid before the unions existed? Sports unions are responsible for the massive increase in pay over the years. Those top performers would have been making much less in the absence of a union, both at the start and in the peak of their careers. I personally don't view that as decreased individual leverage.

> As soon as the union-negotiated common salary time runs out, top players’ pay jumps several times.

That 'several times' level only exists because of the unions.

Programmers are much closer to electricians than they are professional football players, though. Athletes and actors have star power, and considerable individual leverage. Tom Cruise is definitely in the Screen Actor's Guild but when's the last time SAG did anything for him? They're there to make sure the lowest end gets their $2k/week.

I get your point and it's a good one, I just think when we're talking about literally 100-200 people negotiating 8 and 9-figure yearly contracts it's an outlier (to say the least).

Your overall leverage is increased through the union so you are more likely to get a fair compensation than before.

not if the union negotiates upper limits on compensation.

Or it negotiates yearly raise brackets.

You can negotiate better individually if you are good and there arent union enforced guidelines, if you're not, the union deal would work out better.

Or it can do nothing of the sort, instead negotiating things like non-competes, options exercise window, etc. See screen writers or actors unions for examples.

Professional athlete unions are a strong counter example. Unions do what their members want them to do.

Then your union is bad and you should work to improve it.

No wonder if US unions always end up so bad if apparently nobody is willing to fix things and let pancilpushers do it.

I'm in europe, unions are mandatory everywhere, some are good, some are not, average just do what the company wants them to, usually the 2-3% raise every year.

Unions don't really work for software, high demand, low supply of people, here you can negotiate better then without one, and if you are not happy, next job.

They aren't mandatory everywhere, atleast in germany.

You can join the union or not. If you don't join you can still take advantage of the union negotiated rates or not if you wish. If you think you can negotiate better than the union you're still free to do so.

Do you see yourself as becoming a top earner in your field?

Do you know if you earn more than your colleagues? If so, is this because of your negotiating skills?

I know I am compensated fairly and that puts me as top earner for my current country.

It is due to demand and offer for my technical skills... I switch or ask for a raise if I get a better offer, anyone can/should do that.

It's not due to unions. Here unions are mandatory and result is what I said earlier, that plus making it hard to fire incompetent people.

If there's any sort of competition for employees then you have to be ready to offer more than the guideline to keep/attract the best people.

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