And yet Trump is doing basically same thing. Toppling our government, this time with sanctions.
50 years later when Iranian did see US as enemy, don’t act surprised. This is what Trump sows.
50 years later when Iranian did see US as enemy, don’t act surprised. This is what Trump sows.
What new wars have been started under the current administration?
Many an internet flame-war, that's for sure.
But then - how do you define war. The stage of official declaration all to arms type wars seem to be less clear-cut. Economics has and always will be the biggest weapon of wars these days.
I probably wouldn't refer to Trump's twitter commentary as warfare, inflammatory and counterproductive though it may be.
Even the killing of Soleimani took place in Baghdad, where Soleimani (himself a commander of insurgent forces) was meeting with an Iraqi commander of insurgent forces. Hard to argue that this act fell outside the confines of the Congressionally authorized war in Iraq.
Congress didn't authorize war “in Iraq”, but to protect against threats from Iraq (in context of the resolution, pretty clearly the State not the geographical area.)
It's not Trump's endless war, it's America's.
But tread lightly when comparing this administration to any other in the history of western democracy. It's a horror show up close.
When they do care about politics, it's mostly about domestic politics, and Americans tend to have a massive ignorance about what's going on in the rest of the world or the history of any other country.
Civic education and history are not a high priority in the US. American schools tend to be more interested in pumping out people with STEM degrees and business people than about teaching them anything to do with the humanities.
On top of that Americans are constantly lied to and manipulated by their media and politicians, and politicians often act in ways that the American people don't approve of or are not informed of.
So I wouldn't blame the American people for Trump's actions. More and half of those Americans who voted (who aren't nearly all Americans old enough to vote), most voted against electing Trump to be President, and many of them despise him.
That said, Hillary Clinton was a hawk, so even had she become President it's not clear how favorable US government policy would have been towards Iran.
But I wouldn't blame the American people for that either, as America's policy towards Iran was never a major issue in the election (if it was an issue at all), and Americans don't tend to even elect people on policies or issues (which they rarely pay attention to unless it affects them) but on the candidate's image and personality.
Anyway, most Americans have no clue what the US foreign policy towards Iran is, couldn't find Iran on the map, and don't have even have the faintest idea about its history or the history of Iranian-American relations. And for those who know something about it, what they do know (or think they know) probably comes from an occasional 2 minute segment on TV news.
People (all over the world) generally just want to live their lives and be left alone. They don't deserve to be branded enemies for the actions of their governments.
They all come and go. Some learned their lessons, and some are yet to experience the bitter revenge from those they harm and molested.
I’m American and all I’ve ever seen from Iran is people chanting for my death and the death of the people I love. I was born in the 90s and had no bearing on foreign policy.
If sanctions prevents Iran from accomplishing those goals then I personally will consider that a good thing.
Sanctions currently have the effect at making people in Iran even more dependant of the government, and plays well into the Iranian government propaganda.
Yeah I have no problem with your average Iranian. But the Iranian government routinely organizes protests where people are literally calling for the death of Americans.
Sanctions also have the benefit of preventing the Iranian government and their terrorist revolutionary guard from harming Americans as well as they could without sanctions.
Literally is the keyword here, because the translation "death to something" is just the literal mistranslation of the Iranian idiom meaning "down with something". As if someone believed that when you say "I'd die for a beer" you really meant it.
I mean wouldn't you? If Iran had toppled the US government, installed a puppet, and routinely muddled in your affairs for decades essentially making sure that you are unable to progress in any meaningful way?
Here is one such instance from the recent past: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-usa-embassy/iranians...
I don't think you really believe that Iranians are lying awake at night trying to figure out how to destroy you, plandis. They're not even reading Hacker News and thinking 'Death to America and plandis in particular'. If you think about it, you probably recognize that their gripe is with the American presence that surrounds their country - look at the huge number of US bases in the region, in addition to the history we're discussing here. It's not like the Iranians have a ring of bases in Canada and the US, is it now?
Just do a google search there are many many instances.
The US has been consistently trying to destroy the nation of Iran. Iran holds demonstrations calling for the destruction of America but they never fought the US in any kind of war. When 9/11 happened, they were one of the only countries in the Middle East to have nationwide moments of silence and prayers for victims in America.
Iran also has been one of the biggest fighters of ISIS in Iraq. They are able to mobilize civilian volunteers in Iraq in a way any other organization would envy.
It's really crazy how much reality you have to ignore to believe there is any justification for US sanctions on Iran or to justify why you think Iranians should not be angry at the US