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Cant MS just provide a button somewhere that downloads and installs the browser? A computer doesn't need a browser to download something from the internet (such as a browser).

Can’t they use the Windows App Store to let users install their browser of choice?

Do I use that window app store to configure my router or internet connection? How about if you have a corporate account and log in through a connector like okta, which display a web page for login? How about when firefox and half your os gets infected and deleted by your av -will a windows install disk bring back your browser so you can download firefox again?

Being able to show a webpage is an essential function of all modern operating systems. the included browser is a part of windows, much like notepad and vi, or a package manager (programs control panel in windows), or regedit. You are free to add a browser of your choice. The one that's part of the base os image is not your choice, and is supported by the os vendor, as part of the os. You want an os interface to let you frankenstein your os with custom parts and make it unsupported? You have one. You, as an advanced user, can remove edge with powershell very easily.

re: router config - Windows has Captive Portal support and all routers which require config will intercept dns requests to msftconnecttest.com and redirect to the local IP of the router which Windows will show in a modal window

re: corporate account - The WebBrowser component (MSTML/Trident) will never be removed because it would require replacing a huge part of the OS that handles this, in too many places, and it won't be replaced with WebView based on CrEdge because that has no support for proprietary Microsoft controls.

They will remove IE, but not Trident.

Had to look it up, and I was wrong on connector needing a browser.

As far as routers, captive portal launches a browser on my pc, not a modal dialog. And none of the routers I have do what you say. I have to plug in a cable and go to the gateway ip. In a browser.

I think it has a rule, that prohibits 3rd party browser engines. :/

I don't think it's that, rather it makes it nigh impossible because the browsers will have to be rewritten to use UWP APIs, which were quite limited when they first launched. Also they won't be able to compete with Edge which had access to restricted APIs

You can install Win32 apps from the store, UWP/WinRT is no longer a requirement: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/deskto...

Windows Store allows non UWP apps for over 2 years now.

It doesn't have to be a 3rd party. It could be Edge itself.

Does it prohibit the new Edge then?

The rules these guys set for others never apply to themselves.

Why would it have that rule?

"Security": https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/store-p...

What if your router needs some manual configuration through the web interface?

I'm not convinced there is much to gain from letting Edge be uninstalled through normal means as long as it's not consuming resources other than some disk space when you're not using it.

re: router config, see my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24203962

Anything stopping them including the installer with windows?

But then what's the difference between edge being installed and merely not-yet-unpacked? Like, it's still there. The installer could just create a shortcut and say that it's installed now, would that be enough? Seems silly.

I know it's not user friendly for the average person, but there is powershell. It can be used to download files from the internet.

https://blog.jourdant.me/post/3-ways-to-download-files-with-...

There's also always the option MS could have done, disable uninstall of the last browser on the os, whichever that may be. So if you have chrome, edge and firefox and you remove 2 of them, trying to uninstall the third one would give a warning or stop you or something.

One plausible reason to provide a browser by default is to help debugging internet connection issues on new setups.

Happened with me once.

this was already solved ten years ago when Microsoft was fined half a billion bucks by the EU for promoting their own browser this way and disadvantaging competition

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329#:~:text=Microso....

very simple solution: offer a browser choice window on first start.

That requirement ended in 2014. Now everything comes with a web browser, and most are even less changeable than in Windows.

The world is a different place than in 2014.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/196170-microsoft-is-fi...

There's not too much point in citing this ruling anymore since it would never go this way again. Every non-Windows OS ships with a default browser (including Linux distros!) and locked-down platforms like TVs, DVD players, iOS, consoles, fridges, you can't even install another browser.

I call b.s. on that. Edge does actively check and scrape data from other browsers so it knows it isn't the last or default browser. You don't need a browser to use a windows workstation with pre-installed productivity apps. You might find edge itself is undesirable on your systems because people try to use it to access sites and you din't to support edge operationally or vulnerability management.

I thought the 90s anti-trust lawsuit against MS was exactly about this?

> So removing the browser may leave a user unable to bootstrap another browser onto the system (at least once IE is actually gone) without outside help or another machine.

  Invoke-WebRequest 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=win64&lang=en-US' -OutFile firefox-latest.exe

> Invoke-WebRequest 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=... -OutFile firefox-latest.exe

A majority of Windows users can't be expected to do this. Think of the target demographic which uses Windows.

This could easily be packaged into a shell command by Microsoft and just let regular user click that to reinstall the browser.

Which is a complex string you need to google, as opposed to the cli command that easily uninstalls edge. How will you download this if you just moved out of your mom's house and bought a laptop and a router? How do you set up that router? Displaying a web page is part of the core os. You don't have to use explorer.exe as a file manager either, nor /bin/sh.

Let's not pretend we live in some Stone Age where only our hardlined desktops are able to access the internet.

Cool, let's not. Let's not pretend I want to to type that long thing from my phone simply because my os doesn't have a web browser. If you want to, no one's stopping you. I want the basic tools included and always working.

I think we have a very different definition of basic tools.

I can agree with this. To me, a computer being able to display a website, in 2020, is basic functionality. Something my phone and refrigirator can do is something a full blown computer should be able to do out of the box. For an os that includes basic photo editing software, hypertext editing, video and music players, and game system integration, displaying a webpage is a basic tool. Just like a basic toolset from lowes is expected to have a screwdriver.

I think you are defining a computer OS as a basic OS -like TRON on a microwave. It is not -it's a multi-GB platform, and a basic tool included in it is not a basic tool you'd expect from a microwave. But these days, some microwaves also include a browser.

Much like airbags are a basic safety feature, but were not 20 years ago. Much like vi was a basic feature. But why include vi, when all you need is ed?

Did you use a browser to get that command? And did you type it by hand, or copy pasting it?

Powershell.

It's like telling normal users "just apt-get."

Those PowerShell commands just kill me.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what all the hate is about. MS shipping and updating their browser as an OS component is super reasonable and not unexpected at all.

Like there's plenty of reason to be mad at all the different ways MS pushes Edge in Windows but shipping it with Windows Update would be pretty low on my list.

It does go full screen, lock focus, and pin itself to the taskbar on first launch. Some have reported that i copied in their settings/bookmarks from Chrome without user prompt too but it did not for me.

the only dumb part is that they don't explain this in the linked help page. clearly users are looking for an answer of why they can't uninstall edge.

instead of the answer being you can't install edge because it's too awesome to be uninstalled, why not just tell people that you can't uninstall it because other apps would break.