Hacker News Reader

Comment by spanhandler | Hacker News Reader

> That doesn't address the issue: those who would can't.

Then buy any other general computing product on the market. I'd be more sympathetic to this concern if Android didn't exist. Meanwhile it does, and the users who picked Apple did it because they don't care about this, they don't care very much about this, or because they actively want the App Store restrictions and the ecosystem that they create.

> You don't lose anything if you don't want to.

I very well might, though. Changes to rules change how actors behave in a system. The way software developers and publishers behave on iOS could change in ways that I don't like if they're able to viably distribute software outside the App Store. That might be OK, except forcing developers and publishers to follow the App Store rules is part of the appeal of the devices. If that'd been a major sticking point for me, I could have bought Android.

View on HN

>Changes to rules change how actors behave in a system. The way software developers and publishers behave on iOS could change in ways that I don't like

Probably most apps would still be on store and hopefully you would get a cheaper version from the developer website.

What is clear but you probably don't want to admit is Apple is not fighting here for your safety but for extracting mroe money, if they were not that greedy Epic,Spotify would not have started this wars and you would have been safe in the wallgarden and extremely satisfied that the other people inside can't escape either.

> What is clear but you probably don't want to admit is Apple is not fighting here for your safety but for extracting mroe money, if they were not that greedy Epic,Spotify would not have started this wars and you would have been safe in the wallgarden and extremely satisfied that the other people inside can't escape either.

Why wouldn't I admit that? Of course the situation benefits them. I just doubt there's a way to give me all the aspects of their devices & ecosystem that I value, that doesn't also benefit them. I'd love to see them drop the cut they take, for instance. That being so high benefits me not at all, so far as I can tell.

... and if someone comes out with devices that actually compete with the specific sort of product they offer, including the integrated & closed app store and restrictions on what apps are allowed to do, and takes a lower cut of app store sales, then Apple might have to reduce their cut, too. Or this current scuffle might end up not changing the app store rules much, but dropping the cut they take substantially—personally, that's an outcome I'd love.

IMO the ideal situation for Apple fans is that Apple is forced to offer a choice to developers, either pay a fair fixed charge(like you would pay for webhosting, you have different tiers or plans and fortuneteller with web hosting you have true competition) or a developer could decide to give Apple 30% cut. Probably most developers would chose to pay the fixed fee and the Apple users will have cheaper apps and subscriptions(in app payments) while enjoying the restrictions that nobody can have the option to escape the wallgarden(not sure how are you happy with this though, say in a country Apple is forced to remove all chat apps that are encrypted including browsers and then Apple fans would just say `you should have predicted this,sell the phone and use Android`)

> Then buy any other general computing product on the market

That's not how free market works.

And it's a very silly objection.

Android is a licensed platform.from Google, but Google does not make the majority of devices.

Apple manufacturs the devices, but they sell them to me locked in the ecosystem they profit from.

Imagine being unable of refueling because your car does not work with standard oil pumps and you had to go to Apple licensed gas station whom Apple charges 30% to.

They would be prohibited from selling the car.

> I very well might, though.

But you wouldn't if you don't change your behaviour.

> Changes to rules change how actors behave in a system

That's exactly what many want from Apple.

Change the rules.

Nobody is asking Apple to relax their safety rules inside their walled garden.

If they can't allow sideloading, they're not as good as I thought.

> I could have bought Android.

I don't buy it.

If Apple sold Android powered iPhones you would still buy an iPhone, you're are buying the brand, not the product.

> That's not how free market works.

It... isn't? How not?

> Imagine being unable of refueling because your car does not work with standard oil pumps and you had to go to Apple licensed gas station whom Apple charges 30% to.

Then I'd probably buy a competing brand of car, if that bothered me? You know, one of my other choices on the market? Like how there are a bunch of Android device vendors and a couple Linux mobile vendors that I could choose if Apple's App Store model bothered me, rather than being something I actively want? I am 100% not following how this isn't a market working. The choices people are making may not be the ones you prefer—happens to me all the time with markets—but there are choices.

> That's exactly what many want from Apple.

> Change the rules.

Many developers and publishers, maybe. I'm very much unconvinced that's what the subset of users who are aware of this issue in the first place, want, for the most part. I think if it were a major problem for them they'd have bought an Android device, or something else.

> If they can't allow sideloading, they're not as good as I thought.

They do allow sideloading, it's just fairly inconvenient. They can't allow a form of it that's convenient enough to allow other app stores to thrive, without changing the character of the ecosystem for their users. I don't think any amount of being "good" at what they do would change that.

> If Apple sold Android powered iPhones you would still buy an iPhone, you're are buying the brand, not the product.

OK, cool, guess continuing this exchange is pointless.

> Then I'd probably buy a competing brand of car, if that bothered me?

But you also bought Apple approved tires, Apple approved child seat, Apple approved free miles on the highway and Apple approved breaking fluid

You can't use them anywhere else, maybe you can sell them, but you have to reset the car to factory settings

Whatever you bought cannot be used anywhere else, except another Apple car

That's how vendor lock in works, I'm European but I know US laws don't appreciate when a company locks users in

Reply on news.ycombinator.com