Most interestingly compared to US, if you need to lay off people you need to lay of your employees in order of most junior to most senior (seniority in terms of time they have been with the company)
Americans be like: "Shock! Awe! How would anyone ever hire an employee under such a requirement?!"
(Meanwhile Netherlands unemployed rate is ~ 4.3%, and the US one at ~10 - and the latter with lots of under-reporting, e.g. people giving up looking for a job, and so on).
Is that not the case in NL?
At least here in Germany, the government uses a lot of tricks to make the number smaller (we call it "Schönrechnen", calculating in a way to make a number look better)
A little, but nothing like the US.
The Dutch government is at least as skilled as making its people believe things are going well. Its a actually a bit of a rabbit hole, just like it is for Americans.
> The Dutch government is at least as skilled as making its people believe things are going well. Its a actually a bit of a rabbit hole, just like it is for Americans.
I think that’s most governments in general, sadly.
To be fair this is not a very good comparison due to the European focus on job retention schemes vs the American focus on expanded unemployment insurance and stimulus cheques during the pandemic.
They are not comparable. In the Netherlands and Germany it feels like the only employees who make good money are management. Engineers are never going to be rich from working as engineers. The only way to make it is to break into management, and the odds are against you.
Might still be worth it for the benefits, but it should be mentioned.
Even most blue collar workers I know own their house.
As I mentioned: it might still be worth it, but I really dislike this whole style of "look, everything is the same, only we have X, Y and Z". It's not, there are trade-offs. If somebody likes those trade-offs (e.g. better job security for lower compensation), then they'll prefer it that way, and that's completely valid. But to pretend that there are no trade-offs (that is: to only mention one side of the trade-offs) is misleading.
It is not (only) a matter of capacity, it is (also) a matter of culture/habits.
In fact, if you look at various European countries, that's funny, because house ownership rates kind of go the opposite way of average wealth/income per capita.
If you mean to say the inequality in NL or Germany is unreasonably high - sure! But the US is even less equal.
Edit: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/16/ceos-see-pay-grow-1000percen... also looks at older income inequalities, and the development is pretty stark.
What? US SWE don't make significantly more money than EU-based SWEs? That's news, I'd love to see sources.
In general, high earners earn more in the US, which includes both CEO's and SWE (but the point about how easy it is to fire people and about inequality was more general, not specifically about SWE).
For much better public services, benefits, access to health, etc...
>will usually not own a house etc.
The Netherlands have a higher home ownership than the US (67.8% vs 65.3%).
I see that as a benefit. Less inequality, less golden parachutes, the average person making a better living with better public services and benefits...
I could not care less for special salaries that only apply to a small percentage, when https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the...
There are also places in Germany offering 2-3x that €65k in total comp for comparable roles as you see for the high salaries in the USA. Amazon Berlin, Google Munich etc.
Lol no :) more like 80k base and some stock for sde-2
One problem is that this takes 40 years...
The main reason why software engineers in the US make more on average are the FAANG companies and VC backed startups that pay insane salaries for their employees, primarily in the Bay Area with extremely high cost of living.
I don't think an entry level Google engineer making $120k living in the Bay Area can afford a better lifestyle than me making €60k (before taxes) living in Germany.
There are a lot of reasons to live and work in Germany, but money is not one of them.
Yeah, people seem to conflate base cash salary with total comp, which is very misleading. Sure, you start making $120k in base salary at google as a fresh grad, and you top out at around $150k as a senior engineer.
However, the total comp ends up being mostly covered by stock, which is what drives that senior engineer total comp to be more in the $400k-500k range. And even at the fresh grad level, I expect the total comp at Google to cross $200k/yr easily.
American standard of living (or lack thereof) vs Dutch standard of living.
Considering this, I wouldn't bother to compare the US vs Dutch salary:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the...
This is effectively how the unemployment rate is counted in the US too: you have to be actively looking for a job (be a jobseeker) to be counted in the unemployment rate.
There are millions of people who are no longer jobseekers for whatever reason. Most often it is due to becoming more and more demoralized/demotivated (Americans statistically, adjusted for population, have this problem by far the worst of the entire developed world), having a legal record that makes a person virtually unemployable (we lock up our citizens at a higher rate than anyone else in the world), people having to be full-time caretakers for a family member (due to a lack of proper and adequately funded social insurance), disabled people trying to get benefits for several years—and often failing (Of the developed world, only in South Korea is it harder to claim disability benefits: this really says a lot because the perception around disability in Asia, but especially Southeast Asia is deplorable).
In particular circumstances, you have more security with a temporary contract.
Disclaimer : I am Dutch.
It is much easier for companies to let temporary contracts expire than start the actual process to get permission to fire employees.
If you want to fire someone on a temporary contract, you will have to pay him off.
That's not "will" it is "might". You can wait until their contract ends. You can also fire the person if they severely misbehaved (stealing.. though not just 0.03 EUR like someone at Action who took a shopping bag :-p).
Note that "fire" is often used in case of involuntary dismissal, so saying that they need to be paid off is weird if you use "fire".
In which circumstances are those? If your temporary contract ends within 26 weeks you'll be selected _before_ anyone with a fulltime contract. This will depend on the way that the company tries to fire someone.
https://www.uwv.nl/werkgevers/werkgever-en-ontslag/ik-wil-on...