German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management
cnbc.com
cnbc.com
Only a couple days ago, after having the invite in their hands for 10 days did they start complaining about health and safety. Something they were never concerned with when it came to actually working (packed meeting rooms, mandating customer service agents return to work in the office).
Its a shame, because there is a lot of cool work to do here, and really talented people to work with. It seems to just be a top level management problem.
https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294210928234373120?s=2...
Continuously updated article in German:
Name and shame seems appropriate here, no?.
verdi == general purpose union coverying many different fields, worker counciels etc. with a lot of legal expertise about what is possible and what is not.
It's not a huge amount, €5 a month. But I don't use it anymore so that's wasted money and I decided to cancel it. Under EU law, I have two weeks to cancel a subscription if I decide I don't want it, including an auto-renewing subscription. I've cancelled subscriptions this way with companies before and never had any comments beyond "yes, we'll cancel that for you immediately".
Not so N26. I said I want to cancel (within 2 days), they said I'd have to pay the full year. I sent them the EU law saying that I have two weeks to cancel, and they immediately, and in very threatening terms, said if I don't pay it all they'll send my account to a debt collection agency (this is now the 4th message in the conversation, and my first ever conversation with support after three years as a happy customer).
I immediately withdrew all money from the account and emailed support instructing them to close the account, referencing that support conversation and the law saying that they can't charge me for the year's subscription.
Well, they did close my account, and they did send the rest of the subscription charge to a collection agency who have sent me a few messages (that I've ignored).
Oh, and the cherry on top. They emailed me back to say that my attempt to cancel the subscription was not valid because I didn't use the word "revoke". Apparently this would have all been fine if I said I want to "revoke the subscription" but my account goes to a collection agency because I said " cancel my subscription" instead which is completele BS.
Pretty terrible experience. In short, don't use N26.
In any case, the main issue was that N26 support escalated this in an extremely aggressive manner. I was talking to them politely. I actually said something along the lines of "I believe, under this EU law, that I'm entitled to cancel the auto-renewed subscription. Isn't that correct?". Their response: boom, debt collection agency. Completely uncalled-for and turned this previously happy customer into someone who hates their company.
[1] https://business.gov.nl/regulation/cancellation-period-sale/
This is patently false. I work at a medium-sized startup in Berlin, which is very international, with many of my colleagues speaking little German. We have recently created a Works Council (with support from the management) - and the council includes non-german speakers. It is certainly more work, as the work of the council involves a lot of german law - so training and documents need to be translated - however it is possible, and we have nothing even close to the resources of N26.
Which, of course, is also a laughably bad argument, since there's nothing that prevents N26 from voluntarily granting those employees similar protections they'd enjoy if they were employed in Germany.
That sounds like a two-tier system to me. Inside-Germany employees having a say (backed by formal power) on their priorities; outside-Germany employees having no say.
A works council, like a union, does not always act unambiguously in the interests of all the employees. It's not that clear cut, because issues are complicated. What is good for some employees is bad for others.
If N26 decided to grant outside-Germany employees similar protections as inside-Germany, would the outside-Germany employees have an equal say and equal right to vote on what they want, or would only the inside-Germany employees actually be represented because the formal process is limited to just them?
(It should be noted that the relevant German law considers "Betriebe" and "Betriebsteile" as the unit where employees are represented, so each individual location of a company is usually considered separate and employees at one location have almost no say regarding employees in other locations. In that way, the lawmakers had the same thought process as you)
But the law doesn't forbid applying agreements between the management and the works council (Betriebsvereinbarungen) to employees outside of Germany.
[1] https://www.vahlekuehnelbecker.de/2018/10/19/wann-ist-der-be...
-- https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294183659583369216
ver.di and IG Metall are Germanys two biggest unions.
Quite frankly I doubt it's possible to recover from that without removing the founders (currently acting as CEO and CFO) from the company.
I've seen phrasing such as "N26 has filed another restraining order ...".
Is that just a shorthand way of saying that N26 filed a request for a court to issue a restraining order, and that request was granted?
https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294183659583369216?s=2...
Also completely invalidates their defense for the first restraining order, citing health risks. That was covered the moment ver.di took over the organization of the meeting.
> UPDATE: Someone has called the police to check the safety measures of the meeting. They found no issue and have left the premises.
A healthy organization should have one, in my opinion. Management being against it is an unhealthy sign.
Just so you have some context. a Works Council has the following rights:
Right to discuss: they will have a bi-yearly meeting with the employer, who will report to the employees the financial situation of the company
Right to give advise: (This is the one startups find scary). When a company wants to do an investment round or any action that has economical or organisational impact, they _must_ ask for advice from the Works Council. The employer _must_ take their advice into account. If he does not, there is a cool-down period of a month before the decisions comes into place. Within that month the employees can take the employer to court in Amsterdam to block the action. This basically means employees have the right to block investment rounds through court. The burden of proof is on the employee that this is not in interest of the company.
Right to vote: The WC has the right to vote on certain decisions regarding reduction of working hours or work conditions. Here the onus is turned around compared to the right to advise. The WC makes the decision, and the _employer_ has the right to countersue. This basically means the employees have the right to force the employer to court if they want to do a firing round. The employer's task is to prove in court that the firing round is needed by law.
Most interestingly compared to US, if you need to lay off people you need to lay of your employees in order of most junior to most senior (seniority in terms of time they have been with the company)
Americans be like: "Shock! Awe! How would anyone ever hire an employee under such a requirement?!"
(Meanwhile Netherlands unemployed rate is ~ 4.3%, and the US one at ~10 - and the latter with lots of under-reporting, e.g. people giving up looking for a job, and so on).
Is that not the case in NL?
At least here in Germany, the government uses a lot of tricks to make the number smaller (we call it "Schönrechnen", calculating in a way to make a number look better)
A little, but nothing like the US.
The Dutch government is at least as skilled as making its people believe things are going well. Its a actually a bit of a rabbit hole, just like it is for Americans.
> The Dutch government is at least as skilled as making its people believe things are going well. Its a actually a bit of a rabbit hole, just like it is for Americans.
I think that’s most governments in general, sadly.
To be fair this is not a very good comparison due to the European focus on job retention schemes vs the American focus on expanded unemployment insurance and stimulus cheques during the pandemic.
They are not comparable. In the Netherlands and Germany it feels like the only employees who make good money are management. Engineers are never going to be rich from working as engineers. The only way to make it is to break into management, and the odds are against you.
Might still be worth it for the benefits, but it should be mentioned.
Even most blue collar workers I know own their house.
As I mentioned: it might still be worth it, but I really dislike this whole style of "look, everything is the same, only we have X, Y and Z". It's not, there are trade-offs. If somebody likes those trade-offs (e.g. better job security for lower compensation), then they'll prefer it that way, and that's completely valid. But to pretend that there are no trade-offs (that is: to only mention one side of the trade-offs) is misleading.
It is not (only) a matter of capacity, it is (also) a matter of culture/habits.
In fact, if you look at various European countries, that's funny, because house ownership rates kind of go the opposite way of average wealth/income per capita.
If you mean to say the inequality in NL or Germany is unreasonably high - sure! But the US is even less equal.
Edit: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/16/ceos-see-pay-grow-1000percen... also looks at older income inequalities, and the development is pretty stark.
What? US SWE don't make significantly more money than EU-based SWEs? That's news, I'd love to see sources.
In general, high earners earn more in the US, which includes both CEO's and SWE (but the point about how easy it is to fire people and about inequality was more general, not specifically about SWE).
For much better public services, benefits, access to health, etc...
>will usually not own a house etc.
The Netherlands have a higher home ownership than the US (67.8% vs 65.3%).
I see that as a benefit. Less inequality, less golden parachutes, the average person making a better living with better public services and benefits...
I could not care less for special salaries that only apply to a small percentage, when https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the...
There are also places in Germany offering 2-3x that €65k in total comp for comparable roles as you see for the high salaries in the USA. Amazon Berlin, Google Munich etc.
Lol no :) more like 80k base and some stock for sde-2
One problem is that this takes 40 years...
The main reason why software engineers in the US make more on average are the FAANG companies and VC backed startups that pay insane salaries for their employees, primarily in the Bay Area with extremely high cost of living.
I don't think an entry level Google engineer making $120k living in the Bay Area can afford a better lifestyle than me making €60k (before taxes) living in Germany.
There are a lot of reasons to live and work in Germany, but money is not one of them.
Yeah, people seem to conflate base cash salary with total comp, which is very misleading. Sure, you start making $120k in base salary at google as a fresh grad, and you top out at around $150k as a senior engineer.
However, the total comp ends up being mostly covered by stock, which is what drives that senior engineer total comp to be more in the $400k-500k range. And even at the fresh grad level, I expect the total comp at Google to cross $200k/yr easily.
American standard of living (or lack thereof) vs Dutch standard of living.
Considering this, I wouldn't bother to compare the US vs Dutch salary:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the...
This is effectively how the unemployment rate is counted in the US too: you have to be actively looking for a job (be a jobseeker) to be counted in the unemployment rate.
There are millions of people who are no longer jobseekers for whatever reason. Most often it is due to becoming more and more demoralized/demotivated (Americans statistically, adjusted for population, have this problem by far the worst of the entire developed world), having a legal record that makes a person virtually unemployable (we lock up our citizens at a higher rate than anyone else in the world), people having to be full-time caretakers for a family member (due to a lack of proper and adequately funded social insurance), disabled people trying to get benefits for several years—and often failing (Of the developed world, only in South Korea is it harder to claim disability benefits: this really says a lot because the perception around disability in Asia, but especially Southeast Asia is deplorable).
In particular circumstances, you have more security with a temporary contract.
Disclaimer : I am Dutch.
It is much easier for companies to let temporary contracts expire than start the actual process to get permission to fire employees.
If you want to fire someone on a temporary contract, you will have to pay him off.
That's not "will" it is "might". You can wait until their contract ends. You can also fire the person if they severely misbehaved (stealing.. though not just 0.03 EUR like someone at Action who took a shopping bag :-p).
Note that "fire" is often used in case of involuntary dismissal, so saying that they need to be paid off is weird if you use "fire".
In which circumstances are those? If your temporary contract ends within 26 weeks you'll be selected _before_ anyone with a fulltime contract. This will depend on the way that the company tries to fire someone.
https://www.uwv.nl/werkgevers/werkgever-en-ontslag/ik-wil-on...
They are never mandatory, however employees do have the right to form one if there are at least five employees who are eligible to vote (18+) and if at least three of those can be elected (>6 months with the company, broadly speaking no one in an important management role).
At least three employees have to take the initiative and call for an election and that can often be quite scary, to be honest. Because appalling rhetoric like here from N26 is not uncommon when that happens. Often these employers also try to (even pre-emptively) form their own unofficial employee council (like is the case here), however that has to be seen with a heavy dose of skepticism, since ultimate power of how such unofficial councils function and whether they can exist at all still rests with the employer. Unlike the Worker Councils they are not protected by the law.
Worker councils cannot be abolished by the employers, their rights cannot be taken away by the employer. The employer has not control over them. That’s their power.
That doesn’t really change that I’m currently still too scared to actually form one at the company I work for, even though I would very much like for it to exist. It still feels like painting a target on your back, even though Germany does not have at-will employment and you certainly cannot be fired or blocked or even just so much as reprimanded for wanting a form a Worker Council.
If there's one good thing that's gonna come out of the idiotic attempts by the N26 management to stop this, I hope it's bringing more awareness to the fact that "Betriebsräte" are even a thing that exists.
Second step is getting help in actually creating one, and I'm hoping that ver.di (and other unions! IG Metall has been active in this space recently too.) will step up and provide guidance and support for this.
Isn't it common knowledge? 40% of employees work in companies with a worker council, it's pretty much the default for large enterprises.
I think it's pretty accurate regarding career effect. Worker Council members are generally much more union-involved, which employers obviously don't like too much. On the other hand: as long as you're a member of the worker council, you can essentially not get fired at all (short of being caught stealing or physically attacking people) so it's a stable career in itself, though rather like working for the government: you won't get to the highest heights, but you'll also not have to work too hard or fear for your job in an economic downturn.
Among german-native workforce? Probably. Among the huge swaths on immigrants in Berlin's startup scene? Absolutely not.
but being a works council member myself I can assure you that even the best employers can have very subtle ways. Works council members from different companies talk and some stories are outright scary.
In the company I work for some join the (Dutch) Works Council just to get ahead in their career. They often join until they're promoted. It's a huge international shipping company.
Active Betriebsrat here. Do it if you have a couple of like minded co-workers. If you need any assistance contact the nearest union - verdi should be the best guess if you're in tech.
Best of luck!
At one of my previous employers there was a failed attempt to form a worker council. The 3 employees were all fired after being in the company for many years. Management basically put them under constant surveillance and recorded every tiny slip-up.
Since there was no majority they couldn't form a work council.
Evaluation records that don't reflect the actual work, mobbing, surveys where the "majority" states the company is best without one,...
There are lawyers specialized in helping management,
https://www.kanzlei-hasselbach.de/2016/kuendigung-betriebsra...
Are you in Netherlands or in Germany? I'm part of a Dutch Works Council. I completely disagree with the statement that Dutch and German Works Councils are similar. A German Works Council is has loads of rights that a Dutch Works Council does not have. It basically deals with way more things/
If a Works Council is appreciated often depends not so much on the company, it's also depends on whom are represented by the company. The
Regarding N26: already a Dutch Works Council can easily take the company to court whereby the company itself has to fund the costs. Meaning, company has to pay the lawyers fees. Similarly, the Works Council can also spend company money on getting advice from e.g. a lawyer. As a German Works Council is usually _way_ more powerful than the Dutch one I find this situation funny. It's the times where we advice the company to be careful with German Works Council (e.g. a change affecting at least Netherlands and Germany), the advice is not taken seriously, an in an update 6 - 12 months later they'll confirm that they underestimated the German Works Council.
From what I heard, German Works Council is involved with new vacancies, the hiring process, hiring a German vs anyone else, salary, etc. They can also force the company to fill up a vacancy (e.g. a vacancy due to someone leaving).
In the company I work for a Works Council is appreciated; it's not something they do because there's a law requiring it.
On the other side I've worked for a larger financial services company more than a few years ago which would've really benefited from this sort of setup as the management was pretty callous in regards to when it got rid of employees or changed incentives at last second or diluted them severely.
"The alternative to the Works Council should have a representation of employees who are not only based in Germany, but also all other countries, including Brazil and the United States" and
"That said, if the N26 team feels that they want to organize the feedback culture in Germany differently via a works council, N26 will of course respect and support this, as well as any step in the formation of an electoral board."
The article says the initial dissent from the management was due to Covid19 concerns and inclusion of international employees. It may well be that N26 is just trying to safe face, but if we take the statements as honest, they at least give the impression that the management is not in principle against a worker's council.
Here's the arrangement from the Worker's Council to address the concern
>>> How do you ensure the health and safety of participants of the Electoral Board meeting given COVID19?
> Our Health & Safety concept has been drawn up in collaboration with legal experts.
> The venue we selected accommodates up to 500 people with proper physical distancing. N26 Operations GmbH has less than 500 employees, so even if all of them decide to participate, the meeting can go ahead. N26 GmbH has more employees than 500; however, with holidays, illness and travels, we anticipate that not all of them will come to the Electoral Board meeting. In the (very unlikely) event that 500 or more people turn up, the meeting will have to be postponed.
> The contact details of each participant will be collected and kept for the time required by law.
> At the entrance, we will check the identity of each participant to ensure that no unauthorized or external people can enter. On the 13th of August, only employees of N26 Operations GmbH can enter. On the 14th of August, only employees of N26 GmbH can enter.
> If you experience symptoms of a cold, flue and/or COVID19, or you were told to quarantine, please do not come to the meeting! After the Electoral Board is set up, you will still be able to vote for the delegates for the Working Council.
Edit - A real time update
https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294210928234373120?s=2...
> UPDATE: Someone has called the police to check the safety measures of the meeting. They found no issue and have left the premises.
The following offences shall be punishable by a term of imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine, or both:
1. interfering with an election to the works council, the youth and trainee delegation, the ship’s committee, the fleet works council or the representative bodies of the employees referred to in section 3 (1), clause 1 to 3 or 5, or influencing such elections by inflicting or threatening reprisals or granting or promising incentives
Their actions speak different words
My translation of the relevant paragraphs:
The elected body stood "against almost all values we believe in at N26", it [the e-mail] says. And: "Drive: It makes us slower. Simplicity: It makes our cooperation more compley and hirarchical. Integrity: It undermines a culture of trust and could lead to a hightend level of confrontation. Excellence: It is not an up-to-date instrument of employee mangment and limits personal career development and influence."
Morover, according to the e-mails argumentation, a work council would lead to a two-class society for employees, because it is responsible only for German employees. A world-wide "Employee Representation Board" is named as an alternative proposal.
Back to me: Proposing a not-legally-a-work-council is a standard trick of German union busters. The real point is, of course, that the alternative board doesn't have the rights and protections of a real one. Also, looking at their Kununu reviews (I think that is a cultural equivalent of Glassdoor, though the focus is more on soft factors than money) they actually seem like the kind of work-place one would urgently want to found a work council at. So nah, not much chance of that being at all about genuine care for non-German employees.
In English: startup, the: Early stage company with allegedly high growth potential offering equity instead of cash, based on the idea that will be a good deal if it really takes off.
In German: Startup, das: Small tech-company, usually Berlin-based, hipster culture, offering coolness and alleged skill development instead of cash, also fruit baskets and tabletop football.
Of course the glamour of a German Startup is heavily based on equivocation between those two concepts.
Not really. I joined a 200-300 person startup that had a successful exit. On average, I made the same annually as I would have at one of the bigcos. With extra risk.
I keep seeing things like Monzo, Monese, Revolut but they're all UK based. Don't think they'd be too impacted by Brexit but nevertheless I'm looking for an EU-first solution.
That seems like a highly dubious way to evaluate a bank.
Personally I use Monzo for personal banking, and Starling for business. Though starling has a personal banking product too.
A few years ago I have gotten a joint account with my wife over at GLS. Not as Internet savvy company but finally Apple Pay for their credit cards. They are investing in a lot of green tech, small businesses. Probably they have invest in some esoteric shenanigans but as a customer of that bank you can actually choose where your Money gets invested.
"Hip" is really the last thing I want in a bank, the N26 advertising totally misses the mark for me. Their technology seems to be kind of crap, too. Security holes due to gross incompetence. https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money
DKB rejects applications unless you have German PR or citizenship and it is mainly in German.
Here is a DKB subsidiary https://www.dkbcodefactory.com/ advertising as a start-up.
I find it hard to believe these councils don’t have the ability to account for international employees, is this a specifically “outside the EU” issue since the examples given are in the Americas, and not any of the neighboring countries they surely have employees in?
Our works council for example isn't able to represent our Czech colleagues.
Source: My employer has something like this.
Anyone who is employed by a German legal entity should be accounted for.
If the weird statement is a fake fear about employees in another country: setup a similar Works Council in that country. An employer can easily give additional rights, meaning: setup a Works Council-like thing in a country where you aren't required to have one.
EDIT: sorry, I misread the question. As a software engineer I am comfortable--the work is interesting and engaging. I think it's mostly the customer support staff who are disgruntled
There are some Betriebsrat trainings where this kind of issues gets talked about, and what are the legal means to counter-attack them.
That would be a crime in Germany, you can go to prison for and they are actually very very close to crossing that line, if they haven't already overstepped it.