Comment by abvdasker | Hacker News Reader

Comment by abvdasker | Hacker News Reader

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The consequences of this ruling are probably not going to be known for a while. This is certainly bad for Uber & Lyft insofar as it will greatly increase their operating costs. The question is what effect the ruling will have on drivers.

Uber is not a profitable company with fat margins like Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple or Netflix. I don't see any way for Uber to absorb the increased costs that come with full employment without reducing the number of drivers and increasing the cost of rides in California.

The change in employment classification means that drivers will no longer be able to choose when they work. Uber will choose when they work, and for how long. The barrier to becoming an Uber driver will increase. Currently, in most cities it's possible to sign up to drive entirely online and basically just requires a license and a completed background check. Going forward people who want to drive for Uber will have to interview like any other job, probably in-person with a resume, and jump through the many hoops which that process entails.

My guess is that for new drivers who can pass the interview and existing full-time drivers who don't get laid off this will bring a big improvement in quality of life and provide some much-needed financial security and benefits. The rest will be out of a job.

I think it's unfortunate that some kind of compromise couldn't be reached which would have provided some economic security for these workers while accounting for the real differences between gig work and regular employment.

Profitability should have no bearing on whether drivers are classified as employees or contractors. If these companies can’t turn a profit while complying with the law then they don’t have a viable business model. That is entirely their problem.

Furthermore, the assumptions you make regarding future hiring practices are unfounded. Nothing stipulates that resumes or interviews, let alone in person, would be required to extend employment.

There might be no stipulations, but do you really expect Uber to be completely different to every other company when hiring actual employees? People that you are legally liable for?

>If these companies can’t turn a profit while complying with the law then they don’t have a viable business model. That is entirely their problem.

But let's completely ignore the part where companies lobby for laws that protect their market. Can't wait to go back to the old taxis.

> If these companies can’t turn a profit while complying with the law then they don’t have a viable business model

Are you seriously telling me that if people don't interact freely in the way bureaucrats want them to interact, then those people should, by law, not be allowed to interact?

Big Brother knows best, huh.

What is a minimum wage?

A minimum wage is nothing more than a mechanism higher skilled workers use to command higher wages at the expense of lower skilled workers.

The whole point is that Uber isn't actually treating its drivers like contractors. Any theoretical benefit to being a contractor is not really relevant if they don't have those rights in practice.

I'm not sure you can claim that with confidence if you haven't driven with Uber before. Many drivers hold the opposite opinion as well and prefer to keep their job and only drive whenever they're free.

>drivers will no longer be able to choose when they work

Why? Uber is still free to let them choose if they choose so.

>Going forward people who want to drive for Uber will have to interview like any other job

Why? Uber would be free to hire without interview.

>this will bring a big improvement in quality of life

That's the point.

>The rest will be out of a job

It was deemed that this kind of a job is not worth having people in, often being below minimum wage and with no protection. In a bit of hyperbole, abolition took jobs from slaves as well.

To answer your first "Why?" it's because employees have to be paid much more when working over 40 hours / week. Drivers will no longer be able to work an extra 5 hours when they need extra money: They'll have to have a second job. Similarly, there are certain minimum costs associated with each employee above and beyond the costs of a contractor. This may mean Uber is forced to favor drivers who commit to a certain minimum of hours per week, ridding themselves of the "before and after work" driver crowd. The net effect of these two forces means Uber will just be another part-to-full-time job.

Basically you're arguing that the race to the bottoms is good for everyone involved.

From a country that has hard fought-for USD16/hour minimum wage, paid 10 sick leave and 20 annual leave days per year, this doesn't appear true at all.

How does allowing flexible work arrangement imply “race to the bottom”?

Nothing precludes proper employees with flexible arrangements. Forfeiting overtime pay and other labor protections afforded by law are definitely race-to-the-bottomy.

Nothing precludes contractors having labor protections either.

What a tasteless and tortured analogy. I'm sure the slaves hated being freed as much as my brother will be when they tell him that he needs to drive X minimum hours a week to keep his employment status with Uber/Lyft. More realistically, there probably won't be an Uber/Lyft left to drive for if this ruling sticks. God knows they're already bleeding funds as we speak. There's no way they'll stay afloat.

No matter how you want to spin this, it's not going to be a victory for the majority of the drivers. Let us, in our high and mighty chair, obliterate a burgeoning industry filled with people voluntarily making money on their own time. Let the taxi medallions flow back in its stead. Problem solved - slavery is no more.

Freed Russian serfs were indeed distressed in many cases, which doesn't make their emancipation any less moral.

Uber pays less than minimum wage for many, which can't stand.

I think Uber already chooses when they work and for how long. Uber will have to cap the hours at 8 hrs a day to save on overtime. But the "new employees" can work multiple jobs if they want.

Are there employment laws I'm not aware of that require "interviews"? Most fast food works can become employees by just walking in the door, I think.

This is just untrue. Drivers are free to choose when they want to drive.

Doesn’t Uber decide who to route which ride?

Sure, but Uber varies rates so they want to drive when Uber needs them.

How is that any different from any other contracting job. If I'm a designer a client may pay me more to finish a job now rather than in 10 days.

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