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Comment by dongvsascript | Hacker News Reader

and literally any 10 year old android phone can run not just the latest security patches but even the latest android. you are taking the iphone limitation of 'os must be from hardware manufacturer' and for some reason applying it to android phones.

my 10 year old motorola nexus is running android 10 -which is the current version. you install the new os on android by downloading an app, which installs the new os on reboot. it takes 15 minutes, and gramma can do it.

next you'll tell me mac laptops are better because you can't put windows 10 on your old hp laptop, because hp's system image for it only goes to windows 7.

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Sure, installing the updates may be simple, but getting the OS installed in the first place is not quite as simple.

Also, many Android devices don’t even have unlockable bootloaders. This makes your first statement patently false. There is no way for me to install any updates to my abandoned Acer tablet as the bootloader is locked and the device is abandoned.

It may be true to say “many Android devices can be updated through community projects” but you’re glossing over a lot of complexity.

I rarely root devices but I have yet to own an Android device that couldn't (eventually) be rooted using a community tool. This is anecdotal, there must be exceptions, but in my experience "locked bootloader" just means it might be a while before someone finds an exploit.

Easy enough for grandma, maybe not so much.

> Easy enough for grandma, maybe not so much.

This is pretty important when we're taking about a billion devices. The amount of people who do this is irrelevant and thus 99% or more of these users will be vulnerable until their phone stops working or the Facebook app no longer supports such an old version, forcing them to get a new one [assuming new Snapdragon chips fix the issue].

Right I never suggested otherwise, just clearing up the misconception that a locked bootloader automatically means the phone's OS can't be updated.

How do you keep a straight face and say something like “security updates are possible as soon as someone discovers an exploit”?

Deary me.

The exploits in question generally require having the device in your possession and unlocking it.

I think the distinction is pretty clear.

Exploits, plural.

Kinda proves my point: chain of exploits.

this is like saying to only buy mac laptops, because an os is hard to install on your laptop. I guess that's why the corporate world and other people don't run a bunch of linux. because it's a "community project." redhad and ubunty are community projects. gotcha. they are. just like lineageos. supported by hundreds of paid developers and many huge companies.

installing an os on your phone is not simple. but it is harder than installing it on your laptop. and because installing it on a laptop is hard, people don't buy copies of windows and never have.

i am not glossing over complexity. but this is not complexity. anything apparently is complexity to you if it's not "buy small computer, and literally do nothing." yes, doing something is "complexity." opening a door requires keys. too complex.

us somewhat technical people, like this entire site and literally a third of the population, can follow xda directions. my gramma can watch a 15 minute youtube video and just click exactly what it says. the complexity is not complex.

as far as unlockable bootloaders, there are some. i can count on one hand, out of the hundreds of phones I can buy. if by many you mean 2%, sure. i guess that 2% means don't use 98% of phones. strange how apple is unlockable on 100% of their phones, yet that 2% is "worse."

When you play pretend with fake information, the only thing you are doing with the narrative is making yourself look like you're spreading narrative. this works for fox news watchers like yourself. not on a forum with a bunch of downvoting nerds.

If I asked 90% of folks on the street to “just format your hard drive and install a Linux ISO” I’m going to get blank stares or a million questions.

In addition, it’s not about community projects being inferior. I’m a big believer in FOSS, strive to run nothing but FOSS, and avid contributors and publisher of FOSS. It’s about support. And, for the record, Ubuntu and Redhat are corporate projects though they depend and include many community projects and offer their products for free. Lineage is a community project.

Corporations do heavily use open source, but they also pay vendors for support. The average user also expects support from their vendor. Either their mobile provider or phone manufacturer. If they unlock and install LineageOS, they get none.

Your assumptions are way off base. First about the public’s likelihood to do what you’re recommending and second about me.

For the record, I’m one of the original members of TeamWin, helped write TWRP, have contributed to CyanogenMod. I’m not some uninformed schmuck. I definitely know how to flash a ROM.

if you asked your 90% what iOS was they couldn't answer you either, despite having an iphone in their pocket, so don't see your point. and those people won't have a 4yo phone in the pocket either -it'll be refreshed every couple of years, and still under automated ota updates.

so again you're moving the goalpost. the claim of the op was old phones from apple are superior because they get vendor security patches, and android does not. which is factually false.

Dang, I wish my grandma was a AOSP contributor.

But most phones in the United States sold within the last decade had the bootloaders locked so you can’t install another rom even if you knew how to do it.

Is it USA thing or something more common? Seems like technical people around me change firmware with no problem. I only heard that some phones have limits, after which you can't reflash a firmware.

Z3 Compact was my personal experience with Android devices, I’ve since bailed back to iPhones: https://www.androidpolice.com/2014/10/02/unlocking-the-bootl...

> When the bootloader is unlocked, the device loses certain DRM security keys. That means you can't purchase content from Sony's storefronts and a few licensed features won't work, but it apparently also means basic features of the phone are negatively affected. A Sony rep has confirmed that some advanced camera algorithms on the new generation of devices like the Z3 and Z3 Compact are protected by DRM. If you unlock the phone, those features stop working. Apparently that causes photos in low-light to be noisier and poorly balanced.

> This isn't the first time Sony's bootloader unlock has come with some major drawbacks—unlocking past devices could actually break camera functionality (this was technically a bug). There have always been a few proprietary features that stop working, but the difference in image quality this time is allegedly noticeable.

> Update: Sony has updated the text of the bootloader unlock warning on its website to be clear about the camera impact. It reads, "...the removal of DRM security keys may affect advanced camera functionality. For example, noise reduction algorithms might be removed, and performance when taking photos in low-light conditions might be affected."

IMO, Unlockable but lost some features is somewhat reasonable restriction. Things like if you install Ubuntu you can't use Windows Explorer.

Google bricked my Android phone many years ago by deactivating the auth server used for logging into the phone with your Google account. The phone didn’t support Cyanogen so I literally just had to stop using it purely due to Google deciding it was time to kill it.

So don’t give me this nonsense that Android phones live forever.

hmm. google didn't brick mine. i don't have a google account, or any google services on my phone. that's like saying microsoft bricked your windows laptop, so don't buy laptops with linux or bsd.

cyanogen? there are a hundred other builds. google your phone model and custom rom.

they don't live forever but they do live over 10 years on the latest android. which beats apple and their security patches any day.

Google hasn’t bricked your phone (yet) and they bricked mine so you expect me to be excited? You said any old Android phone could run the newest stuff but it’s a lie. I can still use my original iPhone other than it being slow but I literally cannot use my HTC phone that Google deactivated the auth server for. There is no “update to the newest Android” because the hardware is “too old” for modern Android and they cut the phone off from upgrades. Which is fine, except they also cut off the DNS for the “login to Android” feature so it’s bricked. It would have been a great travel phone still as it had been for many years, but Google got greedy.

There was no cyanogen or other alternative supported. It’s not a matter of googling more. They didn’t support the phone model.

I think you're massively exaggerating the stability of running unsupported versions of Android on old devices.

> and literally any 10 year old android phone can run not just the latest security patches but even the latest android.

Not in my experience. Some models work decently, others have major stability issues.

so pick a rom that's common and well supported and popular for your phone model. i'm guessing your experience includes zero reading about what rom is best for what phone, before you put it on. kinda like buying a 2 star rated tv on amazon.

oh look, i googled 'best custom rom for nexus 6' and every result has good roms.

I think you're being needlessly confrontational and defensive. There's no need to make personal accusations about my ability to do research.

Lol who's your gramma?

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